July 6, 2023
Q&A Quickie: Sexual Desire & Painful Sex
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- How does your relationship affect desire and libido?
- How do you rekindle connection and desire after breaking up and then reuniting?
- How do you rebuild trust when you get back together?
In this episode, we respond to a listener question: her partner left her and then returned, and now she’s dealing with low libido and painful sex. We discuss the complexities of rekindling desire, reigniting the flame and rebuilding trust.
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Rough Transcript:
This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health, or other professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.
Q&A Quickie: Sexual Desire & Painful Sex
Episode 324
[00:00:00] You’re listening to the Sex with Dr. Jess podcast, sex and Relationship Advice you can use tonight.
[00:00:15] Jess O’Reilly: Hey, hey, we’ve got a quickie episode for you, babe. How are you doing today?
[00:00:19] Brandon Ware: I’m awesome. Thank you. How are you?
[00:00:21] Jess O’Reilly: I’m good. I’m good. We are in the heat of summer. We’re in Barcelona, our now second home.
[00:00:27] Brandon Ware: It’s hot and it’s hot.
[00:00:28] Jess O’Reilly: I guess it’s our first home now, but the streets are super packed with tourists. Of course. It’s a really young city. Like, I definitely am on the, I feel like I’m on the older side here. I don’t know when that happened. You wake up one day and then you’re old.
[00:00:43] Brandon Ware: Yeah. I mean, yes. Welcome to my world.
[00:00:46] Jess O’Reilly: Young people here for a ton of music festivals, right?
[00:00:48] Jess O’Reilly: I feel like there’s just a music festival every weekend here, and so I stumble trying, trying to be one of the cool kids. I never go to the music festival, so no. I’m like, I’m in bed before they start dinner here in Barcelona. They eat dinner at 11 o’clock at night.
[00:01:01] Brandon Ware: Yeah, you gotta gotta find that early.
[00:01:03] Brandon Ware: It’s kinda like being in Florida.
[00:01:05] Jess O’Reilly: I need the senior special. Absolutely. Well, actually it’s weird. It’s easy to adjust to the lifestyle here, I’ve found, because the sun goes down at like 10 o’clock at night.
[00:01:13] Brandon Ware: Yeah. I feel ridiculous when I’m wrapping up my day getting ready for bed and I can hear kids playing inside.
[00:01:19] Jess O’Reilly: But it’s also, I find we end up going to dinner later because it’s so bright out, right? Like seven and eight o’clock at night. Everything’s. Alive, sort of like the Sanka set, like the um, after work thing back, back in Toronto and in North America. But I was thinking about music festivals because you see, um, every weekend there seems to be a change of attire on the streets.
[00:01:40] Jess O’Reilly: Cuz I guess different festivals attract different demographics and there tends to be a look, right? Like when you think about Coachella, there’s a look, I know people dress differently, but there’s some thematic elements and love honey with whom I’m good friends. They did a, a survey. To find out how many people are actually having sex.
[00:01:57] Jess O’Reilly: At these music festivals. Have you, have you had sex at a concert?
[00:01:59] Brandon Ware: [00:02:00] No, I have not had sex. I, no, maybe, maybe some overnight concerts. When I was younger, I had sex with myself. Actually, no, that’s not true. I had no, no, actually I take it back. I didn’t.
[00:02:09] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. What about over you? You used to go to festivals where you slept in tents and slept on pizza boxes and stuff?
[00:02:15] Brandon Ware: Yeah. I went to Woodstock in 99.
[00:02:17] Jess O’Reilly: Oh, not 70, whatever.
[00:02:19] Brandon Ware: No, no. Contrary to popular. Contrary to popular belief, I did not go to Woodstock. Okay.
[00:02:23] Jess O’Reilly: Did you not have sex at Woodstock?
[00:02:25] Brandon Ware: No.
[00:02:25] Jess O’Reilly: Oh,
[00:02:25] Brandon Ware: I you, you know what, no one should have had sex with me there. I could barely. You could barely get clean.
[00:02:30] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah.
[00:02:31] Brandon Ware: Like it was not,
[00:02:32] Jess O’Reilly: hang on. You could barely speak too. Your
[00:02:33] Brandon Ware: Oh, yeah. I was not coherent for those three days, but let me tell you that no one was clean. No one was clean.
[00:02:40] Jess O’Reilly: Okay. Okay.
[00:02:40] Brandon Ware: And I like. Clean.
[00:02:42] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, I love clean too. Well, anyhow, according to this survey of over 2000 folks over the age of 18, This number kind of blows my mind.
[00:02:49] Jess O’Reilly: 39% have had sex at music festivals.
[00:02:53] Brandon Ware: Lies lie. Hold on. If it’s like having sex with yourself, perhaps? Yeah. Okay.
[00:02:58] Jess O’Reilly: So 47% of men,
[00:03:00] Brandon Ware: mm-hmm.
[00:03:00] Jess O’Reilly: Say they’ve had sex. 30% of women,
[00:03:03] Brandon Ware: 47.
[00:03:04] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, half of men,
[00:03:05] Brandon Ware: half of men have had sex. Sex.
[00:03:06] Jess O’Reilly: I guess those concert tickets are like worth, worth the money. Well, it’s interesting cuz when you see these disparities, 30% versus 47%, I, you can assume maybe that more of the men are having sex with men.
[00:03:16] Jess O’Reilly: Otherwise, if it’s in a hetero or male female sense, it would be the same women over and over again having sex. Now, it’s also possible there’s over reporting on one side. Underreporting on the other age played a role. So 55% of people who had sex in these settings were 18 to 34. But here we go, those over the age of 55.
[00:03:33] Jess O’Reilly: Way older than you and me. Me, 13% of them have done it.
[00:03:37] Brandon Ware: I just think about the logistics of it. I mean, if you’re going to a single day event, like you get a, that’s a lot of people sneaking off into a porta potty,
[00:03:44] Jess O’Reilly: oh God.
[00:03:44] Brandon Ware: Or behind a bush, like to have sex.
[00:03:47] Jess O’Reilly: Hopefully not a porta potty.
[00:03:48] Brandon Ware: So was 47% of. Men and 30% of women,
[00:03:52] Jess O’Reilly: right?
[00:03:52] Brandon Ware: Yeah, no, there’s a whole bunch of lying going on here, and I think that, I’m pretty sure that this parallels what we, what we see in [00:04:00] other studies, doesn’t it?
[00:04:01] Jess O’Reilly: Right. For example, when we talk about age of first sexual experience, we always get a lower number for men versus women. And so that data is like this data.
[00:04:09] Jess O’Reilly: I don’t see whether people are straight or queer. Um, whether they’re gay, lesbian, bi, but in the data for like first sexual experience for straight people, men will always report a younger age than the women. And so on average. So what that suggests is that younger men are having sex with older teens, women, and that is actually not what we’re actually seeing anecdotally.
[00:04:28] Jess O’Reilly: So you’re right, people. Are lying perhaps on both sides. Or maybe, maybe this is a really great thing. Maybe it’s an expansion of the definition of sex. Like maybe it’s a finger bang.
[00:04:37] Brandon Ware: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:04:37] Jess O’Reilly: Maybe it’s, you like that word, eh?
[00:04:39] Brandon Ware: I do like that word.
[00:04:40] Jess O’Reilly: You like that word? So people may, may define it differently.
[00:04:42] Jess O’Reilly: So this was a study conducted by Love Honey, and they actually have a toy called the Juno, which you can wear in your underwear. And there’s one that’s, there’s a whole bunch of them. Actually. There’s one that’s external for the clit, one that’s internal for the vaginal canal. I think there’s one that’s a vibrating penis ring.
[00:04:57] Jess O’Reilly: And it can actually be set to beat to your favorite song. So perfect for music festivals,
[00:05:03] Brandon Ware: EDM festivals, if that was the case, and I’d just put on the pivot and I’d be like, yeah, I had sex four times at this, at this concert.
[00:05:08] Jess O’Reilly: Well, no, with yourself is fine too. Anyhow, I wanna get to the question at hand in this quickie episode.
[00:05:12] Jess O’Reilly: Uh, also wanna shout out that Womanizer is having quite a big sale right now. So they’ve got stuff that’s on sale. They’ve got the starlet for 35% off. They’ve got several models at 20%, 25%, so do check them out. If you’re in the market for a new, it’s not really a vibrator. I, I’ve talked about womanizer before.
[00:05:30] Jess O’Reilly: It’s more of that pleasure air technology that people will call suction, but orgasm in the palm of your hand up to, I think 35 or 40% off some of these items. So womanizer.com. Please use code Dr. Jess d r j e s s, so they know that you heard about it here. All right, let’s get into our listener question.
[00:05:49] Jess O’Reilly: So this woman says, I really can use your help. I’m 55 years old. I’ve been in a relationship for 14 years living together. Life has its ups and downs, and at the end of 2020, [00:06:00] my partner left saying he would never come back. Needless to say, I was devastated. After almost 10 months, he came back. It hasn’t been easy, but we’re together now and we’re trying.
[00:06:09] Jess O’Reilly: However, due to my age and reduced sexual frequency penetration is very painful. Libido is low. Hopefully you can give me some suggestions, so thank you for. Sending me that note. Uh, I’m sure it’s not easy to even put that into words. This sounds like a pretty tough situation and I’m happy to try and help with the painful sex in the libido part.
[00:06:30] Jess O’Reilly: Uh, and I do promise to get to them, but I also think we have to start with the relational and attached emotional issues that I think inevitably would accompany an experience like this. So, you know, when someone’s been with you for many years and then just decides to pick up and leave for 10 months with a promise that he’ll never be back, that’s a lot to deal with.
[00:06:50] Jess O’Reilly: Emotionally.
[00:06:50] Brandon Ware: Yeah. Uh, I’m just wondering what preceded that up and leaving so quickly.
[00:06:56] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah.
[00:06:56] Brandon Ware: And with such, such definitive sort of desire to never come back,
[00:07:01] Jess O’Reilly: but then he came back, you know? Yeah. So I, I mean, I think of course we have to acknowledge that people break commitments and relationships all the time, but to up and leave.
[00:07:08] Jess O’Reilly: And a promise to never come back and then show up again after a long period. That’s just gotta be really rough for you. And so I imagine you dealt with so many different types of pain, right? So you mentioned the physical pain with sex, but what about, I just hope that you’ve had a chance to kind of feel or sit in or acknowledge.
[00:07:25] Jess O’Reilly: You know, grief and maybe abandonment. Perhaps shock, perhaps fear and so much more. Cuz I think this is a very deep hurt and perhaps breach of trust. Now I don’t have all the details, but I think it’s important to recognize that these feelings just don’t go away. And they don’t exist in a vacuum separate from all the elements that affect desire and pleasure with this same person.
[00:07:49] Jess O’Reilly: So I don’t think it’s as simple as like, oh, you need to use lube, or you need to be more aroused. Yes, all of those things. But I think we need to start there. How do you really feel with this person? Like do you feel [00:08:00] safe? With them relationally and emotionally, and if not, what do you need to build that safety?
[00:08:06] Jess O’Reilly: Right? What can you do? What can you ask of them? What can you do together? Are they willing to be a part of that process? Because it’s easy when there’s a physical response to be like, okay, I need to fix this physical response. But oftentimes that physical, let’s call it symptom. Is not the actual cause. So we need to just, you know, dig a little deeper, although I think it’s, um, clear that there’s something else here.
[00:08:28] Jess O’Reilly: So I know some people will say, oh, you’re responsible for your own emotions. But again, feelings don’t occur in a vacuum. So the way other people, the way this person has treated you absolutely affects how you feel and how you feel with them. So I would start with how are you gonna rebuild safety? For most people, safety is essential to pleasure, to desire to the honesty and vulnerability that really lay the foundation.
[00:08:50] Jess O’Reilly: For sexual desire and pleasure. So for example, would you consider therapy on your own or together? Would they also go on their own? And I, I don’t wanna always say therapy, therapy, therapy, like I know that’s not the fit for everyone, but what else in your life feels therapeutic? Right. For example, oftentimes when something like this happens, we don’t tell people, we sit in the shame of Ed and in shame, you know, there’s that secrecy that further intensifies the shame.
[00:09:13] Jess O’Reilly: So are there people you can talk to, could that feel therapeutic to be able to like share with. You know, family members or just talk about how you’re feeling with friends to put this out in the open and then together with your partner and now that he’s back, can you have conversations to build up trust and understanding?
[00:09:30] Jess O’Reilly: And I think if you go back into the podcast, you’ll find a whole bunch of episodes where we explore different exercises for building trust, for cultivating understanding. Um, there’s an intimacy interview from February, 2023 that I think you and I went through and we just kind of answer questions to get to know one another and.
[00:09:48] Jess O’Reilly: I think that if it’s hard to do that exercise, it really does speak to the fact that maybe there’s some trust that needs to be built. Like I think in, in the exercise, you answer questions like, when do you feel most confident? What makes you [00:10:00] feel insecure? When do you feel at ease? What were your struggles?
[00:10:04] Jess O’Reilly: You know, in the past or growing up? How have you grown? What are the highlights from your life? What can I do to make you feel more loved? When do you feel closest to me? How can I show you appreciation? What are your greatest fears? So I think even just having more general conversations. If you don’t wanna go straight to talking about the relationship and what has happened and where you’re at, I think just kind of re getting to know one another to build that trust might be useful.
[00:10:27] Jess O’Reilly: I think it’s also. Perhaps an indication of your commitment to one another to be willing to do some of these slightly uncomfortable exercises. And I’m not saying it has to be that one. Um, we have so many different options here. It’s just one approach. And I wanna say nothing is perfect, but I think it might be just.
[00:10:44] Jess O’Reilly: A place to start, right? To have these conversations, to really talk about what safety means to you and for you to think about like what makes you feel safe in your body, what makes you feel safe in your mind? What makes you feel safe with sex, with pleasure, with this person? And then if we move on to the sex itself, I think it’s important to talk about what sex means to you, right?
[00:11:04] Jess O’Reilly: So when you say you have low libido, have you really thought about what feeds your desire because. Libido is not necessarily a drive like hunger or thirst, right? You won’t die without sex. So desire is something that can fluctuate. It can be high, it can be low, it can be non-existent, and that’s okay, and it can be cultivated.
[00:11:25] Jess O’Reilly: And so if you want to boost your libido, we did another exercise not too long ago called the fire and ice list, where you make a list of your fire items. So those are all the things in life that could possibly get you in the mood for sex, from exercise, to diet, to sleep, to the way your partner talks to you, to the way you talk to yourself, to body image, to fantasizing, to masturbating, to having a clean house ever.
[00:11:47] Jess O’Reilly: Anything that. Could potentially get you in the mood, and those may not be your fire items. Those are just common ones. But I always suggest you consider the emotional, the relational, the practical, the mental and the physical health factors. And then [00:12:00] make your ice list, which is all the things that kill desire for you.
[00:12:03] Jess O’Reilly: Same range, right? For example, this is the memory of your partner walking out, kill your desire. And that takes us back to having to work out the relational elements. First is a matter of stress. Okay? So if stress is killing your desire, what’s the source? What can be done there? What changes can you make to light more fire and melt that ice?
[00:12:21] Jess O’Reilly: And it’s a practical approach, I think, just to help you understand, especially if you write it down in that grid format with fire on one side and ice on the other. It’s not a quick fix, but I think it can give you. More of an idea about what sex means to you, because I think sometimes people want a cream or they want, um, you know, hormonal options.
[00:12:40] Jess O’Reilly: And of course that’s, those are all options too. But also just understanding how we build our notion of sex personally, cuz it’s different from person to person. So there’s an episode called How to Get your Libido back that you might wanna go back to and, and listen. And I think another really important part, and I’ve talked about this before, of igniting desire of libido, is understanding that.
[00:13:01] Jess O’Reilly: It’s almost always desire is almost always responsive for folks with so-called low desire. So what we mean by that is it’s not spontaneous. You don’t wake up or go to bed aching begging for sex, but if you do something to get physically aroused, Even if you’re not in the mood, the mood or desire can follow.
[00:13:18] Jess O’Reilly: So we call this arousal first desire. It is probably your norm. So again, you have to identify what gets you aroused. The emotional, the physical, the relational, the practical, the verbal. The visual, the sensual, what turns you on, because sometimes you have to get your body going first and the mind will follow.
[00:13:34] Brandon Ware: I feel like that at the gym,
[00:13:36] Jess O’Reilly: what
[00:13:36] Brandon Ware: it’s, I ha, it’s responsive.
[00:13:38] Jess O’Reilly: Right, right. Yeah. No, you don’t wanna go to the gym.
[00:13:41] Brandon Ware: Yeah.
[00:13:41] Jess O’Reilly: I’ve never in my life wanted to work out. Ever. I’ve never, I play sports. Sports, have sports. Have you, have I ever worked out? I worked out today. 12 minutes. I’m like working on, on it. But yeah, it, it’s not something that I spontaneously desire, but I always love when I do it.
[00:13:56] Jess O’Reilly: And so then there’s this next piece you mentioned painful penetration. I do [00:14:00] think seeing your doctor about that is important. Uh, hormones and other treatment treatments may be options and they may refer you to, or you can self refer. To a pelvic floor therapist who can give you exercises to improve pelvic floor function.
[00:14:14] Jess O’Reilly: And we’ve had so many episodes and so many interviews with pelvic floor physiotherapists, including a great one that actually covers menopause with Dr. Kamaria Washington. I think it’s called Pelvic Floor Essentials, the key to sexual health from puberty to menopause. So do check that out. I’ll link that in the show notes.
[00:14:31] Jess O’Reilly: But if you just go to. My podcast or sex with dr jess.com/podcast. You’ll find all of those episodes and I just, I think that with all of this, so we talked relationship, we talked desire, we can talk a little bit about painful penetration. I also think you just need to focus. I, I don’t wanna say need, so I take that back, but would you consider focusing on your own pleasure on masturbation?
[00:14:50] Jess O’Reilly: Because self pleasure for the sake of pleasure, not for the sake of. Orgasm or performance or penetration or anyone else’s pleasure can really work wonders for the way you see sex for your sexual self-esteem, and it’s associated with improved sexual functioning, increase in desire, better lubrication, fewer sexual issues.
[00:15:07] Jess O’Reilly: And I also think that masturbating is likely to help you refocus sex back on yourself, which I think could be very valuable in your case given your relational. Backstory. And so when it comes to masturbating, I think a lot of people think it needs to be like to orgasm right away or penetrative, but it can be anything that feels good against your body.
[00:15:28] Jess O’Reilly: Maybe get yourself a toy, get yourself some silicone lube, and even consider mindful masturbation, which involves tuning in. To the sensations, to the movement, to the temperature, to the touch, to the rhythm, to the pressure without focusing on getting off. Like if you get off, so be it. If you have an orgasm, so be it.
[00:15:48] Jess O’Reilly: But it doesn’t have to be the central focus. So I think mindful masturbation might be a place to start. And so, although this is a quickie episode and there’s a lot more to explore, With [00:16:00] this topic, with your story, I also acknowledge that like this is a lot I’m asking. I’m suggesting a lot for you, but I wouldn’t start with the physical until I’ve addressed the emotional and the relational because this is a very unique situation.
[00:16:12] Jess O’Reilly: But also, you’re not alone. There are many people who break up and get back together, and it’s not uncommon for that initial breakup to be initiated on in a one-sided way by one partner. And I’m not definitely not trying to villainize your partner either. I don’t have the full backstory. But because you’re the one who’s reached out, my focus is on how do we make you feel great, right?
[00:16:32] Jess O’Reilly: Physically, emotionally, and feel like you. You’re deserving of all the love and all the pleasure, and not focus necessarily on your partner. All right, I’m gonna stop there and I hope this is helpful. Folks, if you have additional insights, please. Go ahead and send them to me. I don’t have all the answers and I know that nothing is ever complete.
[00:16:50] Jess O’Reilly: But I do appreciate you sharing your stories. I know there are so many questions kind of backing up in my, in my inbox, but I’m gonna get to as many as I can, especially over the summer where we’re doing quick episodes. So I’ll try and get to more of your questions. Gonna leave it at that, remind you about the womanizer.com sale.
[00:17:05] Jess O’Reilly: Suggest that you go check it out while it’s hot and use code Dr. Jess to save a few extra dollars at womanizer.com. Wherever you’re at. I hope you’re having a great one, and that your week is full of love and joy and pleasure.
[00:17:21] Jess O’Reilly: You’re listening to The Sex with Dr. Jess podcast. Improve your sex life, improve your life.
