February 2, 2023
How To Build Emotional Intimacy
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Intimacy is about so much more than sex. It can be emotional, relational, practical, physical, spiritual and so much more. This week, Jess and Brandon share prompts to help cultivate emotional connection as they work their way through the Intimacy Interview.
And just in time for V-Day, we have a luxurious giveaway from Lunatic Femme, a luxurious lingerie brand that uses the finest materials for their small-batch collection. They’re offering up a gorgeous eco-silk kimono with removable sleeves (because all of their pieces are designed to layer, morph, mix & match) and you can enter to win in two simple steps:
1. Subscribe to the Lunatic Femme newsletter HERE
2. Follow them on IG HERE
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This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health, or other professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.
You’re listening to the Sex with Dr. Jess podcast, sex and relationship advice you can use tonight. Welcome to the sex with Dr. Jess Podcast. I’m your co host Brandon Ware, here with my lovely other half, Dr. Jess. Ready to talk how to build emotional intimacy to see? I am ready to talk about that. Okay. What does intimacy mean to you? Intimacy is closeness. It’s connection, but it’s deeper than, like, friendship level connection. You don’t think you can have intimacy with a friend? Okay, I take it back. Take a foot out of my mouth. I guess it was meant to be rhetorical. I guess I think intimacy, I think more sexual, and that’s kind of where I was going with that. But yes. No, you can definitely have intimate relationships with friends. Okay. And I don’t think you’re alone in thinking about intimacy and sexuality or sexual pleasure or sexual intimacy as one thing, but I think it’s more than that, and we’re going to get into that. You don’t have to agree, of course. Language is language. Like, define it however you want. But before we do, I’m really excited. I have a contest that I think you should stop what you’re doing and go enter it now. So I’m thrilled to announce this partnership with it’s a small batch lingerie brand that’s really I don’t know. It’s a mindful brand that’s totally different than anything I’ve ever seen. It’s called lunatic femme. And when I first came across them, I read their tagline, you’re not one thing. Your lingerie shouldn’t be either. And when I read that, I was like, oh, that really resonates. You’re not just one thing. But then I saw their lingerie, and it is wow, it’s so beautiful. It’s luxurious, and it’s just a really cool brand. So it’s layerable, it’s changeable, it’s strip offable. And most importantly, to me, it’s exposable because it’s definitely 100% doubles as fashion wear it under a blazer or without a blazer that would be hot. And you can mix and match and detach all the different pieces to create all these different looks and feels and moods. For example, they’ve got this balcony bra that you can wear, I think, six different ways. They’ve got bodysuits that have different removable harnesses. They have this sexy waist sensor that also turns into a choker or a corset. And the materials are just really, really luxurious. Something called levers lace and organic eco silk. And the metal wear is custom made. They even have some that are 24 karat gold plated in the details. So luna tick femme. But I’m not just sending you to shop there, although you’re going to want to. But more specifically, they’re doing a wicked giveaway. Okay. It’s this gorgeous custom made, limited edition kimono. It’s valued at $795. It has two layers of organic piece silk, so it’s super soft and luxe on both the inside and the outside. You know, when you get, like, something where it’s really nice and silky on the outside and then the scratchy on the inside. I’m like, that doesn’t make sense. Nobody else is really touching me. Although I guess if you’re wearing this, they will be. So you won’t feel any seams. It has detachable sleeves. So, okay. You just have to check it out. You can head on over to my IG to see more, but I want you to enter this contest, and it’s a couple of steps. So you’ll be automatically registered to win when you subscribe to their newsletter at lunatic fem.com. So you have to go to Lunatic fem and then scroll to the bottom and sign up for their newsletter and then follow them on IG. Their IG is lunatic. So I’ll put this all in the show notes. I’m going to put it on my IG. Make sure you do both so that you enter, and then you get extra entries if you tag someone in their kimono giveaway. That is posted now. And this is just, honestly, one of my favorite contests I’ve been a part of. I want to win this. I would want to win this. So go check it out. Lunatic femme. And the contest closes February 13 at 11:59 p.m.. PST. And the winners drawn on Valentine’s Day. In the past, I’ve commented on how I’d rather you naked than in lingerie, but with the lingerie that they have, it’s hot also. Like, it really is. I think it’s because, okay, when we first met and I would wear lingerie, it was like maybe a little scratchy, maybe not the best quality ever. I was a student. I was just like I mean, I was a bartender. I had money to buy lingerie. It was just cheap. I was just cheap. Let’s be honest. So anyhow, this stuff is the opposite. Super gorgeous stuff. Lunaticfam.com. So go check it out. Enter. I hope you win. Tell me if you win. Tell me if you’re a listener and you win, because you should win. All right, today we are talking about intimacy. And intimacy is sort of what you said. It’s often used as a euphemism for sex. But I see intimacy as so many things beyond the sexual right. It’s relational, it’s emotional, it’s physical, it can be social, it’s practical. For some people, it’s spiritual. And when we talk about emotional intimacy specifically, to me, it’s really about deep and meaningful connection and closeness. So I guess I see it as underscored by trust, by safety, by vulnerability. And to me, it’s the type of connection that paves the way for fulfillment. It paves the way to not only feel great together and have a happy life together and have a happy relationship, but even when we think about sex, like, if you have the emotional intimacy, you can do almost anything. When I think about some of the fantasies we’ve explored, when I think about some of the kinky stuff, when I think about some of the roles, some of the emotional places we’ve gone. It’s because we have this emotional intimacy that’s underpinned by trust and vulnerability, and those two things go hand in hand. I think about trust as something that, yes, you build together, but also something that you just give. Right. It’s not always about someone proving their trustworthiness or earning your trust. I think that’s a part of it, but it’s also something we give freely, which gets easier over time. Like, would you say that you feel a lot more trusting now? Absolutely. But it does. It’s the sort of thing that over time, it builds, as you said. And I think different people probably get into relationships at different levels of trust based on previous experience. How much did you trust me in the beginning? I don’t know. It’s hard for me to remember how much I trusted you at the beginning. I think I trusted you quite a bit. Like, listen, we’ve been together for 22 years, so I’m trying to remember that long ago, but I did feel like there was yeah, no, I definitely trusted you. We got very serious very quickly. There was a huge amount of trust that I had in this when I reflect back on it. But the trust has gotten so much deeper over time and with experiences and adventures together, I feel like it’s grown and it’s woven its way. And there have been times where I think that you might have lost a bit of trust in me, or I might have lost a little bit of trust in you. But at the same time, I think it has continued its upward trajectory in terms of its growth. I remember a therapist saying to me, like, you can’t make someone earn your trust, you have to give it to them. And I don’t think it’s as black and white as that, but I think that there was something really important in there for me, that it’s not always about you showing me that I can trust you. It’s just like we trust people every day you walk out onto the street, you trust that a car is not going to hate you. We trust human beings around us, and that’s how we function as a community. So hand in hand with trust, I think, goes vulnerability, right? And vulnerability again, this is just how I see these things. It’s not a universal definition, but vulnerability to me is about this openness to feeling whatever it is you feel, without inhibition or without editing, just being and being free to express what you feel and knowing that you won’t be judged, that you’ll be met with love. And I think that is such a key formula for intimacy, and that is vulnerable expression met by love and support. So if one person shows vulnerability and the other shows love and support, I believe that connection and intimacy is deepened, but it can’t be performative. I see a lot of this in like, I don’t know, emotional intelligence stuff that’s been commoditized in organizational and even relational psychology, which emphasizes performances of vulnerability. They’ll say, like, oh, if you show that you’re vulnerable and admit that you don’t know it all, people will like you more and they’ll be more committed to your team, as though it’s sort of transactional. That doesn’t feel good to me. That feels just too performative and sort of the opposite of emotional intimacy. It sounds like it feels unsafe to me. If you’re doing it with the goal of personal gain or profit in mind, it’s not really about connection. But immediately I can think of examples on social sites where I’ve seen people doing things, trying to be vulnerable, and it seems very performative. And right away I’m like, yeah, no, this isn’t flying right. I feel like I can see through it, and maybe I’m wrong in my assumption, but when it seems very forced, I actually retract and push away. I’m like, yeah, no, well, social media is an interesting one because for some people, social media is such a big part of their lives that they will go on there. Like when they’re about to cry, they will go on there and see it as cathartic or therapeutic. And I know that you definitely don’t see social media that way, and I don’t. So it’s a different lived experience. But maybe for some people, going online and really putting that stuff out there is a really genuine experience for them. And you and I can’t see it that way because we’re more guarded and more private. Yeah, again, the times that I’ve thought I’ve seen it, I’m sorry, it just seemed fake to me. And when it seems fake, I’m not interested in buying into whatever you’re selling. So if somebody uses it as a way to express themselves and if they’re really being vulnerable, that’s fine. I mean, awesome, all the power to you. You’ve got more courage than I have in that respect. But when I feel like it’s fake, I’m like, yeah, no, I guess it’s hard to say, like, are you doing it for personal gain or is it about connection? And I guess there’s this balance between not faking it but still being intentional. Right. So there’s so much talk in organizational psychology around vulnerability, and I think that’s where it’s become transactional. But I think we can be intentional. I think you can perhaps and ought to be intentional. And that’s what I want to focus on today, which is this intentional exercise to build emotional intimacy. And I call it the intimacy interview because my branding is boring and you can do it with anyone you care about. If emotional intimacy is about expressions and understandings and safety, and these elements are really drawn in good part from conversations. So what I’m going to share now is just one example of one or many conversations you can start to deepen intimacy. And it’s not an exhaustive list. It’s not formulaic. It’s just one example. So I think I’ll read through the questions that are used as conversation starter prompts for this exercise, and then you and I can try it, do our own version, and I’m sure we’ve done some version of this at some point in time. So I’m on my little first real speaking tour since 2020, like, the first really, really big one. And so I did use this recently with one of my couples retreat groups, and I’m always kind of adjusting it and changing it depending on the group and how much time we have. But I’ll give you the version that we’re going to use today. So these are questions that you would ask of a loved one or a friend that maybe you don’t feel maybe you don’t feel loved. That’s okay, but somebody you want to deepen intimacy with, basically. So here they are. When do you feel most confident? When do you feel most insecure or unsure? When did you last feel really at ease? What issue do you struggle with that might surprise people who don’t know you? What was your greatest struggle growing up, and how have you grown based on this experience? What was the highlight of your childhood? What can I do to make you feel more loved? When do you feel closest to me? Be specific. How can I show you that I appreciate you? What is your greatest fear? So with these b and I, if we really sat down, I think we could spend an hour or more on just one of these, and we’d go back and forth and probably go back to the conversation. But we’re going to do the brief version, which I still think is valuable, and we can just take turns, I guess. And then at the end, I can talk a little bit about what to do if your partner won’t do this. Because every time I share an exercise, I do hear from folks who say, well, my partner would never do that. All right, do you want to go first? Sure, ask away. When do you feel most confident? I feel most confident when I feel supported by those around me, where I feel like I’m valued by those around me. So when is that? You’re putting me on the spot? Where is that? Or who are those people? So I’m thinking about being with friends of ours, family of ours, right now, where I know that they love me. Like, I’m thinking about Mike and Denise and friends of ours, Steven. And I’m like, when I’m in that environment with them, I know that I’m not generally being judged. Like, I know that you say the right if I slip up, if I say something silly, it’s like there’s no judgment there. Yeah. I’m trying not to also think about work because I have a tendency to think about, how does this apply in a working environment as opposed to how does this apply in a relationship setting where friends or a loved one or a cared one? Like it’s different with you. Yeah. I mean, in life, it’s interesting that you feel most confident around the Fab Five, like that group of us. That’s good to hear. Okay. And that’s good because what’s cool is I think we opt to spend we really do opt to spend so much of our free time together, and we don’t live in the same cities or countries, but we make it happen. And we’re lucky to be able to make it happen. But we don’t go too long without seeing one another. No, we see them fairly often. Yeah. It’s good times hanging out. People will show up anytime. Okay. So when do I feel most confident? When I’m working? When I’m busy? When I’m doing what it is I love. So there are many different parts of my job. And for example, right now, February, I am doing the part of my job that I love love the most. If I can spend the rest of my life doing this, it’s a big fear of mine that I’m not going to get to always do this because it is so much fun, so meaningful. I’m talking to people, right. Face to face. Not on television, not from afar, not even from a stage, because the groups are all under 100 or so people. So it’s more like in a room. And I get to chat with people before the sessions and after the sessions and get kind of feedback and hear their stories. And I feel really confident because I guess and I guess it feels weird to say this, but I feel like I’m making a difference. I feel like I’m having this positive effect, and that’s why I got into this field. I have to do a lot of things that don’t always align with why I got into this field to support the things that I do love to do. And so, yeah, that’s when I feel most confident, when I’m working and I’m busy and also, like, I feel valued. These people are choosing. They’re super busy people, and they’re choosing to spend their time with me right in these sessions. And they’re flying me out to places, all over the place and saying, this is actually a valuable thing for us. I think feeling valued certainly helps you feel those feelings most confident because somebody’s calling you, somebody’s choosing you. I mean, I feel that same way when it comes to work. I mean, when people call me, I feel very comfortable speaking on the topic of real estate because I feel like I’m adding value. I feel like I’m doing something good. I feel like and you’re sort of a different person when you’re confident. You speak a different way to your clients than you do when you’re talking about even this topic because not this specific conversation, because you just have to be yourself. But there’s nerves for anybody who’s in the public eye, whether it’s a podcast that just a few people listen to or a podcast where we have lots and lots of people listening. Now you feel self conscious. We should wouldn’t have said that. Now I’m probably going to be even more guarded than I already am because we talked about we started with this being about vulnerability. And I’m like, this is very like I’m sharing stuff about myself that I don’t share with. I mean, who do I share? I share with my therapist. So now I’m sharing it with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people. There’s a piece there that when I think about that, I’m like, oh my gosh, are people judging me? Let’s never do this. Well, no, really, that’s immediately where I go. Right. So it’s difficult in that respect. No, definitely anything you do to create content or share with the world is a vulnerable offering. Okay. That’s a conversation you and I are going to have that we’re going to when do you feel most insecure or unsure? So you don’t have the questions in front of you, but we can take turns going first. Sure, you go first. That’s what I usually recommend. So when do we feel most insecure or unsure? A lot of the time, one thing has to do with social media. When I have to post, I guess I’m afraid of negative feedback. I’m afraid of making other people feel badly. So I feel like maybe not good enough or like it’s not going to be perfect. So I feel more unsure of myself than I would say insecure in that respect. So yeah, definitely I feel unsure around social postings and there’s data around this and how social media affects people’s self esteem. Insecure. Oh, there’s a certain type of person that triggers me, and I don’t really want to say what the profile of that person is, but in certain groups where I don’t fit in or where I feel I don’t fit in or maybe I feel I don’t belong, I feel insecure. And if it was just you and me, I would maybe use the language, but I don’t really want to right now, but I think you know what I mean. And you and I can continue that conversation. Yeah, I mean, for me it’s the same. I mean, the insecurity comes when I feel like I’m trying to be something I’m not. Certain people those triggers like, I have mine that I’m not going to disclose here right now, but when I have those specific people that say things and I turn into something I’m not, and I don’t like that person. And I don’t know if that’s really insecurity, but it’s certainly something I don’t want to be. And also insecurity goes back to the idea of if I’m not adding value, why am I contributing? I shouldn’t be saying anything. So what do you mean I think I don’t know what I mean, and I think I need more time to reflect on that. So maybe I’m going to take a pass on the rest of this question just so that we can move on to the next. Okay. I see you’re making notes, so I’m going to want to hear about those later. Kind of an aside, we do these exercises kind of as an example, and I know we’re not doing the complete version, but sometimes there’s just going to be things that are either too sore or too hard or too private where we see the value in having the conversation in private. Okay. For Brendan, when did you last feel really at ease? I last felt at ease just recently when we were away. There were a handful of days while we were in Jamaica. Well, it wasn’t that recent, but last time we were away on a holiday, I remember feeling super relaxed and very calm. More recently, was it the octopus? Was it the octopus that we saw? No, that didn’t make me feel quite as he’s, given that I was going to be swimming over it the next day. You know, day to day. I can say that I don’t feel very at ease. Like, on a regular, I feel like there has to be something, like I’m going somewhere, doing something to allow myself to really relax, to feel at ease. Actually, you know what? I do feel at ease sometimes in the morning after, if I’ve exercised and if I’ve done some breathing exercises, I do feel at ease, but then it goes away pretty quickly. I was going to ask you that because sometimes I see you on the basement floor in weird contoured positions. You say, like, lying there, not breathing, loud breath, work noises. Do you feel, like, relaxed then? Yes, I do. And you know what? I haven’t been doing it as much lately, but that’s definitely at home. Going about my day to day is when I do feel at ease, but throughout the day, no, I don’t. So maybe that’s a reminder for me to take the time to do those exercises so that I do feel at ease. How about you? I think I feel at ease when we’re in bed. Like, I feel at ease. I feel comfortable. I feel naked. I feel is it the hot blanket? It is a heated blanket. No, I would say last night in bed, like, you were rubbing my neck. I had some dental stuff done, and it was bothering me, and you started rubbing my neck, and I just really relaxed into it. So I felt really at ease and safe and warm. I’ll remember that. Yeah. Okay, next question is, what issue do you struggle with that might surprise people who don’t know you? Do you want to go first, or do you want me to go? You look so ready. You go. Self confidence. There you go. There’s being vulnerable. I don’t feel like I’m a very I don’t believe in myself enough. So, yeah, I struggle with that. I think I’ve struggled with that my entire life. How about you? Well, I guess people would definitely be surprised to hear that about me. I mean, if you know me, and I think even, like, as a listener, you know me a little bit, but I second guess everything I do. I definitely have some fears of failure. I’m a people pleaser. And so I really struggle to say no, I think, because I speak confidently, and especially if you see me on stage, I’m so loud, I’m bubbly, I’m very confident, but I really struggle to say no and to set boundaries and to all say no, and I’ll be like, no, but I could do this instead. And then somehow I’m doing exactly the thing I was trying to say no to. Somehow I’ve said a yes, and you know that about me. That would be no surprise to you. Do you feel like your self confidence grows in certain settings, though, or is it always bubbling under the surface? Because when you’re speaking, when I’ve seen you present, you’ve got the confidence of ten superhumans. I do. No, you do so much fun. Well, the reason I bring that up is I say that I lack self confidence, but I’m like, there are certain environments, like, when I’m working and I’m comfortable, I feel like I have the confidence that I should have. So I guess we can differentiate between confidence and self esteem. So confidence being how you feel about your capacity to do something right or your capacity for something, whereas self esteem is maybe how you feel about yourself. But it’s not that I don’t like myself. It’s not that I don’t think I’m a good person or that I don’t think I’m smart and capable. There’s so many layers to this. If we were to take the time, things that I want to do, I don’t see people like me doing them as much. So if you don’t see yourself represented, you don’t feel like you belong, those types of things. For example, if you know me from stage, there’s no way you’d think that I can be shy. Well, yeah, when I see you presenting, even for me, seeing knowing you, when I see you presenting, when I see you in your element and how much fun you’re having, that would be the last thing I would think of. Because I do feel like you have that confidence. I do. No, I do. Absolutely. But I’m scared to try new things because I don’t like to not be great at things. I don’t like to get beat at things. How many times have you asked to race me? What? Because I could be you? Because you’re like, I’m faster than you. I am. No, you’re not faster. I am faster than you. Okay, next question. I’m faster than him. How do I turn off? Brennan’s mike, what was your greatest struggle growing up? Oh, God, do we have to talk about this? How have you grown based on this experience? My greatest struggle growing up was trying to please everybody around me. I only know that now, but reflecting back, I wonder who I would have been if I wasn’t trying to please my teachers or my boss at work, or my parents, or my coaches in sports, like, literally everybody. And I wonder if I was more comfortable with who I was, how I might be a different person today. So the people pleasing thing was something I did struggle with, and I think I still struggle with. So how have you grown? Oh, gosh, how have I grown? I don’t know if I have. Is that an option? I think I’ve grown a little bit in that I’ve I’m learning to sit in the discomfort of not pleasing people. But it’s a feels like a very slow process. Like, it feels like something that I’m I’m not. And my expectation is to flip a switch and for it to be better. It’s like I’m going to wake up today and not be upset for not pleasing people. So how have I grown? It’s been like incrementally or it feels like incrementally over time. And more recently, using the help of a therapist to understand and to try and move forward has been very helpful too. Shout out to hoiking. Shout out to hoiking. Okay. My greatest struggle growing. It’s interesting how we had some of the same experiences growing up, you and I, with some similar family dynamics as well. But mine was perfectionism. Like, really, like having to be top of the class on every team winning. Like having when you fast, though, because sprint quickly. Faster than you. Not the not the fastest, but faster than you know, we need to stop this podcast and go for a race. So, yeah, just perfectionism. Everything sports, piano, school behavior. I had a lot of fear of being in trouble, and there was I don’t want to share too much there, but you and I have talked about a baby. Oh, yeah. That’s real fear of being in trouble. Being in trouble. And how have I grown? Well, I haven’t at all. I’ve regressed, and I’m much worse off than I ever I’ve gotten faster at running. No. How have I grown from perfectionism? I mean, I’m just trying to be aware of it, and I’m trying to be aware of kind of the sources of perfectionism also, and where it comes from, like, productivity and everything being about being measured. And I think actually, I really have made some growth in that area. And a big part of that has been kind of tuning back into other cultural experiences that are like, I grew up in Toronto, so I grew up in this Western culture, but tuning back into more collaborative, collective community experiences has helped it’s. Great to hear that. If you’d like, after, we can go do some training, some sprints. Okay. If you’d like. To show you how to get faster. What was the highlight of your childhood? It was definitely sports. You were a sportsman? I was a sportsman, according to my dad. And who doesn’t know what a sportsman is? Because I am not a sportsman. Let me assure you, this guy can’t put a worm on a hook. I could do that, but that’s about it. And then I probably fall in the lake or something. I hate putting a worm on a hook. Do you? Yes, I can’t do it. No one would never put a worm on a hook. But the rest of the sportsman activities I would fail miserably at. But I enjoy sports. Sports. I remember looking forward to them. I remember there was something so exciting about a soccer game or a hockey game. I played football. A football. A football. But no, I loved it. I remember waking up and being excited, like a genuine and excitement to go and play hockey. That’s awesome. And I feel like I don’t have that kind of excitement again. It was just raw. It was so real, the excitement. Right. I don’t think you’ve ever told me this before. No, I just remember waking up on Saturday morning and being so excited that it was Saturday and that I got to play hockey. And it was so much fun. I mean, I’m at a loss for words right now, but that was definitely the highlight. And I played other sports, too, and I just had such a fun time. The clarinet doesn’t count as a sport, you know, it does count as a sport when you play it as vigorously as I did. That’s not the clarinet. That’s just sorry, I forgot which musical issue we were talking. So is there anything like that in your life now where you just wake up excited? I don’t wake up like that excited. But there are definitely things that excite me, that I look forward to. But it’s a different kind of excitement now. Like, I don’t know how to describe that excitement. Maybe it’s because I didn’t have other things in my life. Or responsibilities. Or responsibilities. Whereas now when we’re traveling to certain places and I’m very excited and I’m looking forward to the adventure or to the trip or to getting where we’re going. Awesome. Okay. Highlight of my childhood. It was definitely the time I spent with my God brothers in Jamaica, because I had three God brothers who were two, four, and six years older than me. And when I really think about we would fish, we would go out on this. The boat was always broken down, but somehow we’d get, like, someone to drag us out on the boat. Some wood tied together. I think it was aluminum. And we were rough. They were very, very rough boys. Like, they were extremely physical. We would, like, nail things to the tree. We would go out in the bush, we would catch. So you did sportsman activity? Pretty much. We were sportsmen. Tell me more. But I actually think that it had to do with freedom, because it was the only place where I was allowed to kind of run wild. I think there was a lot of bending of gender rules because I got to be one of the boys and do that stuff. Like, we would jump off of things and climb up things. Like, we would get severely injured. Sounds amazing. One of them had to come up to Canada to have surgery after one night. So I won’t talk. We were just rough. And my dad wouldn’t be there. It would just be my mom. And she would just give me freedom. I I don’t know why. I guess it’s because I was with my three God brothers. She thought you were safe, too. She that was a mistake. Totally mistaken. But that was the highlight. I feel like I did all my growing up in those, like, three weeks, a year down there. Two weeks or however long it was. I don’t know how long it was. And I just remember building, like, these crazy tree houses, and we would pull nails out of things that were holding essential things together so that we could build it. We would take apart the dock. Here’s some scissors, a knife, some rusty nails and a hammer. They will have fun, kids. I promise you. Every nail was rusty and used, and it was just fun. So that was a highlight. I’m glad you survived. Well, I haven’t really asked myself that question before, but I do think it was the freedom and the I think for me, the masculinity of it, like, getting to do things that didn’t feel as proper. Well, if you want to build stuff around the house, let me tell you, I’ll give you a hammer and some nails. You can go to town. Okay, we better move on. What can I do to make you feel more loved? I’m at a loss for words because I feel very loved. I really do. To feel more loved, I’m like I don’t even know. So what do I do to make you feel loved? Like, when do you feel loved? I feel very supported. I feel like you have my back kill anyone who crossed you sort of thing. Yeah, I’m not going to get angry about things, but no, I feel like I’m very supportive. I feel like you think I’m very funny, which is very important to me. I know you’re trying not to laugh right now. I don’t get it, but no, I don’t know what else you could do other than just more of what you’re currently doing. Okay, hang on. I have to get out my list. No, I mean, I do feel very loved, but I like when you’re physically affectionate with me. Sometimes you’re more than others. So, yeah, I would love more. I just love when you come up to me in a kind of unexpected way and pull me close and kiss me and hug me and don’t just press it up against me, but like, what moving on? When do you feel closest to me? I may answer that first. It’s when we’re in bed. I like being in bed. The theme of my intimacy interview is being in bed. It’s when we’re naked in bed. I like to be like skin to skin. Yeah, I definitely feel close to you. I mean, obviously physically there I also feel close to you when I feel when I’m feeling vulnerable. Like, if I had to admit, if I’m feeling scared over something or concerned about something, I feel very close to you then. And I think that kind of goes back to, I feel supported by you. I feel loved by you. So in those moments of whatever it is that’s happening, if there’s an issue that needs to be addressed or whatever it is, I feel very close to you outside of physical touch and affection. That’s interesting because when you are vulnerable with me, I feel more drawn to you, and I feel actually more attracted to you, too, because I don’t think you show it as much. And I know there are different reasons for that. It could be personality, it could be gender. But when you do kind of open up with stuff and stop, and I also think you don’t like to take things, like, you don’t like to be a burden. No, but that’s a lot of work for me because then I have to kind of cut through it and draw it out of you. So when you’re just openly vulnerable and just tell me what you need or what you want and ask for things, I feel more drawn to you. Cool. Okay. How can I show you that I appreciate you? How can you show me? You go first on this one. Me, I’m a words person. Like, I need to hear the words. I like to hear the words or see them in writing. And I think I’m more actions. I feel like when you’re doing things for me, I feel appreciated. Like what? When you’re taking the nails and the hammers and you’re building things? No, I know when you make a meal, I feel very appreciated. When you’re supportive of my work. Those instances where I’ve had to call you and I’ve said, and it hasn’t happened as much lately, but it’s like, I’m sorry, I can’t make whatever it is tonight. I know that you’re supportive of me, and I appreciate that, but I also don’t want to take that for granted because I know how that can play out. Okay, so the last one, and I think we’re probably going to be on a similar page on this one what’s the greatest fear? I mean, there’s two that come to mind. Number one is death. I don’t want to die. I like life. It’s fun. Number two, and this is something that kind of come to mind more recently, is loneliness. Yeah, loneliness. And even though it’s funny, because I feel somewhat contradictory that I like to be alone, but I also know that I like people around. But being lonely and being alone are two different things. Bonjovi said it. I’m going to be alone right now. I think I want to be alone. Take the headphones off.
Canceled. Yeah. I mean, my fear, the first thing that always comes to mind is death. And I’ve always been afraid of death since I was a kid. Like always, I would sit in bed, honestly afraid someone was going to kill me. I’m pretty sure it’s still the same way. When we go traveling places, just so everybody knows. Jessica I always sleep on the murder side. That means the side that’s closer to the door or the window where the murderer is going to come in. So I’m always on the murder side. And when we’ve gone to other places, you’re always like, maybe you should just go take a look around the house to see if anyone’s going to come in to murder me. If somebody does murder me, then I’m what happens? I guess you’ve got a heads up to get out, right? My second fear is I’ll tell you the truth. This is weird to talk about, and I can’t say too much because I’ll get too heavy for myself, but the idea of being old and alone is scary. So you and I have chosen not to have kids. And we have so many people in our lives, so many amazing, loving relationships. I feel so lucky. And I know that having kids is also no guarantee that they’re going to take care of you. I take care of my dad, but there are other kids around who don’t take care of parents. So, yeah, this fear of being old and being alone, and I know I have other people in my life, but you’re the person I really just like to be around. And being around you feels like as safe as being just on my own, but better. So, yeah, that’s a fear that we’re still young, and I know hopefully, knock on wood, it’s a long, long way off, but that’s scary. And I do know that the way our culture treats older people and the way things just work out, it’s not as easy necessarily to make connections and whatnot. So that’s a fear that was supposed to be the first question, and I moved it, and now we’re ending on that. Well, you’re either starting or you’re ending with it on that very heavy tone. But you know what? Every time we do these, every time, I always feel like I learn something new or interesting about you and about you growing up. Like, even that thing about some of the best times you had growing up with your god brothers. I didn’t know that, but you hear me talk about it, he really stuck with me. It’s like all the first times I did anything, like all the important things like having a first drink or first this or the other all happened kind of down there. But also just the way that even the way that you dug into that and realized how that impacted you, I think. I don’t know if that was somewhat therapeutic for you to have that be thinking about it while you’re describing it. It actually is really helpful, I think, about the freedom and the gender bending and just like the roughness of it. I like that because I think that maybe I have to be I don’t want to use the word refined but proper in a lot of environments. And so just the letting go, I think I want more of that. There’s some things follow ups I have for you personally with this conversation. Like, I want to talk more about the insecurity stuff. I want to talk about creating more opportunities for us to feel at ease. And you and I can do that privately. So we will have our follow up. This is the short version, obviously. And yeah, I feel good, babe. Yeah, that was great. That was fun. So we will stop there and thank you for listening. And I want to remind you to make sure you enter this contest for the kimono from Lunatic Fem, because it is stunning. It’s custom made. It’s limited edition. It’s all that beautiful silk, peace silk. And you’re going to love it. I want to win it. It’s hot. It’s hot. That too. Removable sleeves. So go to Lunaticfem.com or go to my IG and I’ll put the link in there and make sure you do two things. You have to subscribe to their email list and you have to follow them on IG and that will enter you in the contest. And then you can get bonuses for the shares and the tags, but Lunaticfemm.com and check out the rest of their collection while you’re there because it is gorgeous. It’s very, very nice. All right, thanks, babe. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Have a great one. You’re listening to the sex with Dr. Jess Pod cast. Improve your sex life. Improve your life.