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August 26, 2021

How To Let Go Of Resentment

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Are you holding onto resentments? Is resentment holding you back from being present and full of joy? Do you have difficulty expressing how you feel or do you feel confined to specific roles?

Tune into this conversation with psychotherapist Roxanne Francis as she guides us through:

• How resentment builds
• How to let go of resentment in relationships
• How resentment is tied to avoidance and vulnerability
• Techniques to move through the process of managing resentment — from both sides
• Ways to process emotions constructively

Keep up to date with the registered social worker and psychotherapist Roxanne Francis through her website or on her Instagram and Twitter accounts.

This episode is brought to you by AdamAndEve.com — use code DRJESS to save 50% on almost any item + get free shipping and some extra free gifts too!

If you’ve got questions for the podcast, submit them here. As well, you can now record your messages for us! Please record your message/question in a quiet room and use your phone’s headphones with built-in mic if possible.

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

How To Let Go Of Resentment

00:00:05 – 00:05:02

You’re listening to the sax with dr jess podcast sacks and relationship advice you can use tonight. We’ll come to the doctor jazz. Podcast i don’t know i’m singing. You just wanted to change it up a little. Yes are you taking requests. Absolutely not but i am going to throw a karaoke party wants to do it. What i am in iraq out kariuki is the last thing to come back because of all of the screaming into the night. There is no singing. It is just screaming and spitting everywhere. I would like to hear return of the mack. I’m a throw some d’s on it is what i’m gonna do okay. Fine fine today. We’re not talking karaoke. We are talking resentment We’re gonna talk about what it is how to let go of it. And we’re about to joined by the roxanne francis an award-winning registered social worker and psychotherapist at consultant and speaker. She has been working with companies and people all over the world to achieve their mental health goals for over a decade. She is the owner of francis psychotherapy and consulting services where she provides psychotherapy to individuals in the community. She also does clinical supervision for other therapists and does a whole bunch of consultation with organisations around mental health in the workplace around diversity equity and inclusion around burnout who a lot of us are feeling that right. Now around children’s mental health around parenting. She’s also a media mental health expert. Which is how. I got to know her. And you’ll see her on newscasts and print and online publications. Pretty much everywhere. How did she find time for this podcast so busy i know. I just forced my way in their into her. I g fox in joins us. I want to send a huge shout out to our sponsors adam and eve who have yet extended their promo for fifty percents off almost any item plus free shipping and a whole series of free surprise gifts with code dr jeff so be sure to check them out at adam and eve dot com. I was actually online shopping. And i noticed a bunch of their lingerie and hot fetish wear is on sale right now so i have my eye on something called the scandal. Full length bodysuits or brennan. You should actually go check it out. I know you’re none of them in my size. Probably that would be amazing. Look great at it. I mean. I know you’re not a shopper. By the talking about for me you know the last time you bought me closed remember. You bought me like a tiger print. Spend extra to take winning. Who’s probably a decade ago. So now i’m giving you a strong hint. No spandex tiger print dresses for me. If if that’s your gym that’s cool. It’s just not my style instead. Go find the scandal. Full length bodysuit. At adam and eve dot com. I think everyone should just get dildos ever dildos for everyone all right their birthdays anniversaries weddings dildos for everyone corporate gifts. You’ve been here. Twenty five year anniversary. We got your three. You can choose between a pen or they’re still does shape like a pen. I would definitely take the dildo shape. one hundred percent. All right. it’s time enough of that. Do go checkout adam and eve dot com use code doctor just to save and also to let them know you learned about it here but now let’s talk resentment joining us now. Is the roxanne francis so good to be chatting with you. We’ve been chatting over. I g for a while and i’ve been following your work. I am such a big fan. I can see that not only. Are your clients really lucky to have you as a therapist but also media is lucky to have you as a very very active voice. What’s on your radar right now. What are you working on. Oh gosh well thank you for that. By the way. I really do enjoy my work with my clients. So that’s always on my radar but also on my radar. Is these forget. I offered to other therapists. ’cause the work can be lonely. Sometimes you don’t really have anyone to say. Hey what do you think about. So and so so. I offer some guidance and support a little bit of mentorship at salon to other therapists field. That so important. I’m hoping that that’s something that therapists are doing throughout the entire course of their career. Because i know in the beginning you have to do supervision right and there are certain a number of hours but i’m always drawn to the therapist who keep that going because man. It’s a hard job you have. It’s definitely challenging. Yeah how are you feeling. As of late. I mean the bird. I mean it’s always a heavy and ocean. -ly i don’t wanna say draining draining for me but maybe not for everybody. It’s an emotionally demanding career. And i imagine over the last year or so. It’s become even more intensified. It’s really interesting in that. We are in a very challenging time. We are dealing with some of the same frustrations that our clients with and. I don’t think there’s ever been any time in history recorded that i’m aware of where the therapists are going through the very same thing that your clients basting and are coming to you for answers on. You’re still struggling with that myself. The isolation working from home the whole family at home you know all of that stuff is challenging.

00:05:02 – 00:10:00

I think at this point. Maybe the defense is that the therapists have i guess. More coping techniques and strategies. You know we’ve studied a lot of this stuff. So we kinda know how to compartmentalize separate certain things. But still i tell my friends. Sometimes the end of the day. I just want quiet. Yes absolutely. Are you finding that that you’re more socially burned out when you do talk to people now like i. I was recording videos yesterday and it took me about. I’d say fifty five minutes of direct talking to camera and by the end of it. I felt like i had worked for a week. And that wasn’t like me before. I used to be able to get up and do that and former interviews and then do a bunch of other things but the fifty odd minutes of talking to camera just drained yup. Yeah it’s definitely challenging sometimes at the end of the day if my phone rings wasn’t bringing i wanna talk if it stacks to me already right. The big life changer for me was when my mom and dad little like just like a whole new world out there. My dad’s texter are very formal. Like it’s kind of your jess. This is dad. Not not exactly mike. Sometimes i have to look up the words. I’m like this is a very very long word for it. I think he’s asking if dinners at six pm. But i’m not sure formal exactly now. You work with a a huge range of issues but out of the ones that i’d really like to talk about. Today is resentment in each ships. And i can see brandon. Brennan are in different locations for folks who don’t know will not different locations. We’re in a different room in the house just for for some purposes but i see brands is kind of widening around resentment. Maybe i’ll go uber abe. Do you think you harper resentment or you like a resentful person. Are you feeling much resentment these days. I think it depends on the relationship. I think if i were to reflect on our relationship. I don’t feel very much resentment. I’m sure that there is some like. I’m sure that if i were to really be honest and unpack some stuff. There must be some somewhere hidden in some nasty corner because it took you four hours to make the salad board. Yesterday i notice and i took. I enjoyed that process. It took me a very long time to do it. But i didn’t like it now. If you asked me to make something more complicated. I will definitely resent the you know the the the request but when i think about other relationships that i have. I’d definitely have resentment and is resentment that i don’t know how to address and it’s at meaning address with the other person or or address with myself like come to terms with it and i don’t really know how to fix it either. Well i’d like to hear about what you think. Triggers your resentment. But let’s go to the expert here. Roxanne what is resentment like. How does it even built. You know it’s so funny. We often look at these things. Expect these huge huge explanations. But i think resentment really just boils down to unexpressed anger or unexpressed frustration. Sometimes the frustration is there and the anger is there and sometimes we don’t even recognize it and if we don’t even recognize were harboring this thing. It’s definitely unexpressed. it’s unexpected verbally. But it comes out in so many different ways right just leaks out absolutely and you must feel it in your body like i mean how do clients explain resentment in their bodies or maybe brandon can weigh in after as well. Yeah i get different. Things from tightness in my chest knots in my stomach grinding. My t. a headaches all the time and checking just keep explaining. My resentment get continued falling asleep or staying asleep back right and just missing the body in general because you know when we hope anger. There’s tension right. And so that can result in tightness in the body and once the resentment gets processed. Once we’re able to discuss once we’re able to find a resolution that physical kinship times to release itself not make sense tomb. It’s this unexpressed anger frustration or dissatisfaction builds over time. You feel it in your body. How does it show up in relationships. There must be so many different ways that you see resentment. Come out whether it’s in a very straightforward way or in all these kind of crawler ways that we may not even recognize as imminent south it can come through. Just you know in some women that i work with. The you know banging on pots pans. The popular hardy doing fine. You know sometimes that can show up you know in the bedroom right. Oftentimes went been used unresolved. People don’t wanna be touched right. Get away from me. i’m not. I’m not into that but quite often people will come to me with you. Know they think that their issue is unique to them. But i hear these stories so often they play out like the same old tape where one partner will say. I’m always the one putting the kids to batam always on making the meals.

00:10:00 – 00:15:05

I’m always the one doing some always wondering that you get to chill couch and so when the other person chilling on the couch goes to you know touch you later you get the cold shoulder and then it’s you’re always frigid. You never want to acquiesce. What’s going on nothing. Nothing’s going on and then they come to me and the one partner will say but they never want to be affectionate and they never want to spend time with me. And then i hear why would i want to spend time with you. I’m the one always doing. I’m all the way always wondering that. And then we start to give space to what’s going on and talking about what’s going on. I’ve hide couples. Come to me around. You know they come to the end. They speak communication. Is the issue right. We’re always arguing. You’re always fighting. I can’t find what. I can’t figure out what’s going on. And then after we peel back all the layers. I get to find out well in this fifteen year relationship may be in your one there was instability and it seemed like it was resolved in here. We are three children. Fifteen years later and i still feel inadequate because you stepped out on me. What so-and-so right. And i still feel the resentment because you never apologize properly. You just bought me flowers about it was over right. So people harbor all these things over time and it definitely impacts the relationship and so we have to give space. We have to give permission for people to really talk about these things because a lot of people feel like. We never talked about stuff. When i was younger i never had the space to express my feelings and so we carry some about in our adult life and so we feel like i’m not allowed to really share what’s going on or others. Keep quiet. because that’s what i was told to do. When i was a kid or only one person gets to share their opinion. They’re quite loud. And i’m just quiet and reserved whereas a matter of fact i’m really just pissed off that when you start with anger there are so many of us who are afraid. I think especially in western cultures to even express anger. If like it’s an accusation and actually brandon. I’ve heard this in some of your like family conversations. Let’s say like well. You’re just angry and i’m i wanna say to you like but you’re allowed to be angry play. Yeah i’m f- an angry. Yes you said you were coming for jenner and didn’t show up or you know you cancelled out less minute for the third time this year for family dinner or i’m just allowed to be mad but yeah i i don’t know there’s this whole kind of toxic positively and everything is cool. You just gotta go with the flow especially pressure on. I think women take the cool girl. Man it’s cool like i don’t. I don’t get upset about things i’m shell. And maybe there’s a lot of pressure on men in a similar fashion right because you’re not supposed to have these swings of mood or variations or shades of emotional response but that pressure to pretend everything is fine to say everything is good then. We tie in the status of happy relationships like the trophy marriage. The trophy husband the trophy wife the trophy partner and so we don’t even want to admit to our friends or and if we don’t want to admit to our friends we also don’t really want to ourselves that said hey and so all of these things can build resentment. No you brought up one of the biggest issues which really is division of labor division to hate labor and household labour. Like when people talk about you know we’re not having sex or my partner doesn’t wanna communicate or my partner won’t open up. Oftentimes it’s tied to the fact that the pressure to perform certain tasks falls on one partner. Oftentimes that is highly and deeply rooted in gender. And sometimes and it’s both of you that are performing these things. I know that in the past. When i’ve done a lot of things and become resentful about it. Become frustrated about it. It’s not necessarily because somebody else’s telling me. I have to do it. That’s right not even necessarily because the thing needed to get done. Because i could say. Oh well if i don’t do it. He’s not going to do it. But the question is does need to be done values getting done. I value a getting done. Maybe he doesn’t value in and it’s not important at i do it all and i’m not actually talking to still in the context of our relationship babe i’m thinking about within my family and my whole kind of social networks all kinds of sign myself up to do everything but nobody’s asked me right like i think we were home a couple of weeks ago for four nights in toronto and i think i hosted i like just i put dinner out front. My house is a five nine. Oh all five nights. I put dinner out front and cook for everybody. I can’t say. I’m resentful of that. But i get overwhelmed and i get tired. No one else cook. No one asked me to put dinner on my front steps for everyone to come get like. I wanted to do that but then i’m doing. I’m signing myself up for tasks that no one asked me to do. And i’m sort of rambling right now. But i have fallen into that where i get resentful like also with our responsibilities around my parents that right i don’t have to do but i take on feeling responsible for other people’s feelings the big one so we’ve got division of labor which is very i think clearer to look at but then there’s also emotional labor that sometimes is put on you but sometimes you decide to take on yourself like if i’m worried that i’ll just make this up that that my mother is upset about something or that you know. There’s an interaction between mother and another family member. And i wanna make it better. I’m just making this up mom but it’s actually not on me to figure out but i seem to somehow think i can be the fix sir right.

00:15:05 – 00:20:03

So who’s creating that situation me exactly like babe. Do you have an example of like how your resentment builds i know. Oftentimes yours is around feeling like people. I don’t want to speak for you. But i think like i’ve noticed when people expect things of you or demand things of you or are little bit greedy. Take it depends on the context. But i think you know when when it comes to certain relationships when i feel like. I’m being taken advantage of that builds resentment. Yeah and i mean they should stop right there on that piece. Just tie that in with what you’re saying just earlier around anger right you know. We tend to vilify this emotion. But it’s an emotion everything else joy fear pride anger just one of them and i like to think that emotions are kind of like a thermostat for what’s going on with you right. They tell us that something. It’s like the dashboard in your car. When am the light flashes e you need to get guests when the engine light comes on you need to go find yourself a service station right away. Some things happening on the inside and we need to pay attention and find out what that is when people get angry. Oftentimes people equate that with like violence or something like that but to be quite clear. Anger serves a purpose and we need to pay attention to it and tells us when our boundaries have been crossed. Think about why you get angry like just you were saying when when someone’s lay and they don’t call maybe when you’ve made dinner and you’re waiting for someone to show up that’s a boundary for you. I’ve gone out of my way. I’ve done this nice thing. You said you were gonna be here on time. Time is important to you. Right you know brandon when you feel like someone’s taking advantage of you that irks you. It causes resentment. It causes anger. It tells you about who you are and it tells you about how this person is housing your personal boundary and your emotions are saints you. I can’t have that. And that’s where the anger comes up so it is now when you find yourself being angry. Now it’s important to figure out. What am i gonna do with that right. My gonna punch a hole in the wall on my gonna yell and scream am i gonna collect myself. And then firmly clearly stated the person who’s crossed my boundary. I can’t have this. please do this anymore. Here’s what i expect to mr right. What happens is we. Don’t pay attention to that because society says no no no anger acute so we stuff it down. We don’t talk about it. We get resentful and then we’re in a couple of therapy office in a couple of years is is it okay to i slam the drawers and bay pots and then collect with myself. Totally joint you. That sometimes like i kind of like make a whole bunch of noise. I feel like sometimes. I must i had that in my household growing up. Yeah totally i mean. So as you’re walking through. This i think about i talk jealousy often and how you need to make friends with jealousy how it’s normative after admit. I haven’t spent as much time thinking about anger in the same bed. And of course as you’re explaining it roxanne. It’s like so clear while this applies to all emotions like no emotion. Good bad or avoidable and so angers. I really appreciate that. It’s telling me something is going on in my in my body or my self as we need to do something about it and so obviously the big question here is how do we let go of resentment and as you walked us through that process of using it as a barometer using frustration or anger as a broader. You’re already answering that question right so if my resentment built because someone in my life constantly cancels plans well how can i let go of the resentment. I’m assuming that i can tell them like this. Actually doesn’t work for me when we talk about setting boundaries. We often talk about saying what our expectations are. And what the consequences are right. So if you’re not going to show up. I’m not going to invite you or if you’re going to be late i’m going to start without you right. If a occurs then my response will be on the following through on that. But i want to add an extra layer to this which is okay so i can maybe set that boundary but following through on the boundary. Might be hard for me. Because i’m like. I wanna please and i don’t like aol mad at me and i’m scared of being perceived as not the nicest right like i really. This is something my friend. And i talk about luna matata. She’s another sex education discuss. Yes absolutely brilliant and we share lauding in common emotionally and we were talking or i’ll share. What what. I was saying yesterday. Is that like. There’s this fear that people won’t like me like i’m so desperate for people to like and your the therapist will begin with while you have to work on making yourself. I i really do like myself. So there’s something in my background in my history. That i have to kind of get at so. It’s not as clear as like okay. I’m resentful. I’m going to let go of the resentment by speaking my mind but i also have to follow through on that boundary of set and in order to follow through after work. Come by people pleasing stuff. So how do we do that. Let’s give an example of maybe you can use one from one of your couples clients couple. That’s resentful over something for many years or something that comes to mind.

00:20:03 – 00:25:01

Let’s see the one back in. Mmediately comes to mind. Is that infidelity example. But you know his comes quite often. People have been together for years decades and the wife is still or one partner is still caught up with something. Challenging like infidelity happened in year. One year two when they were dating. I find that what tends to happen. Is that the reason that we often harbor resentment for so long is the consoler along the course of our lives and particularly in childhood. We’ve gotten a message that it’s not safe to share how you feel because like you said someone might pull away their loves right so we might not be like if we share how we feel or when you were growing up keep sharing how they felt would mean a lack of physical safety. There might be some kind of physical abuse or something or there might be yelling and screaming and just core methods of communication for silent treatment. So withholding communication withholding community and so there is a danger this real perceived sense of danger if i were to really share how i’m feeling. So maybe you’re in their loving relationship but you still feel like you’re eight years old and you feel like you can’t share and so in the therapy session. We often unpack what it means to communicate what it felt like. When was the last time you communicated displeasure and felt safe around. But what did that sense of but sort of not feeling safe. What was it like for you and do you feel unsafe in this current relationship recognizing you’re no longer eight years old recognizing that you’re no longer in danger. And what do you think would actually happen if you communicated your displeasure right now so we have to unpack all of that stuff and then create a safe space for one partner in the reputed setting to discuss their displeasure in the therapeutic setting. Have they ever partner respond big home monday. Continue to practice. That must be. i think. So hard to differentiate between that history of feeling unsafe and then say you know the cognitive piece that. I should know that i’m safe now. You must also have relationships where people aren’t emotionally safe. That doesn’t mean that it’s abusive. But if every time. I bring something up to brandon he withdraws. There’s a consequence to me that i want to avoid or if every time he brings something up to me i lash out. It doesn’t have to be like full. Abandonment not right now the the brain and the body or so were seeking safety. Aren’t we stockley while the thais safety. So if you are harboring resentment over something that happened years ago or over the course of many years of feeling that you’ve done more or i’d love to give another example if i see this all the time where one partner sort of gives up their career to raise the kids and the kids are like fourteen eighteen twenty. And obviously don’t require the same type of support or seem hands on job that you had and they’re feeling like they have to start over again right and i want to just say with so many of the couples that i work with both partners had the potential to do huge exciting things in careers. But you just oftentimes to can’t do it right brennan i like. We don’t have kids so it’s a different story. But when he went kids it can be really challenging. Yup so that that can lead to like years of resentment. So what are we. Where do we begin. Like if you’re at home and you’re like yeah this is me. I’m struggling with this resentment. I think is something that we hold onto. It’s not at all on the other partner. Or do i begin to let go of the resentment so that every time my partner says something. I’m not chippy at them so that every time they reach for me. I don’t necessarily pull away the first thing we have to recognize it because we check ourselves into believing that i don’t get angry upset. I’m back kind of person. And so. I’m not yelling and screaming. I’m throwing things inside so the first thing we have to recognize it and once we’ve recognized it then we have to actually voice it and recognize. It’s okay it’s a voice it. It’s okay to communicate. This is how you feel and we need to address the other partner right. Now that you’ve heard of these feel what does it feel like for you because like you said in many relationships it’s emotionally. I’m safe to say what’s going on the withdraw. There might be other emotional consequences right and so we want to contain that right we want to recognize it and acknowledge it recognized that one partner a talks about how they feel. Explain why. they’re feeling resentful when he talked about how partner be is stealing right do you. Is it a minute. Because you’ve just heard a lot of things come bound or are you okay to share. You know quite often. You know like you said earlier. Sometimes we get resentful because we are doing all these things when no one’s asked us to and so the ever partner might be like what i have. No what i you know item. Expect that. I didn’t expect you to do all about you. Just need a lead. You really speaking to myself here. I would say just ask for help. I’ll help you but you just take Talking to myself either take on all these things.

00:25:01 – 00:30:01

Right without asking for help amend before you know it you resentful so we need to be able to communicate this in a safe place. And then after we’ve communicated that recognized that feelings are hurt apologize. Were apologies do and they need to be real apologies. Real heartfelt sincere apology just because you’re legit doesn’t mean that you owe like five dozen roses but if there are steps that need to happen in order to sort of make amends been take those steps. So how do you. I’m thinking that so many people would arrive at an impasse before we can even get to acknowledging wrong so you know i say i gave all of this up to support your career. You got to have the glory. You get the recognition. My partner might say like that. Was your choice. Like i didn’t make you do that. I didn’t you know you wanted to do that at the time. How do you get them to open up to the perspective or to the potential that we’re all responsible here blame but like we all made the situation and we need to look forward like how do you get over that hump again. It’s the let’s where coming with guiding the conversation oftentimes when we hear something that we don’t wanna hear the first thing we do is defend ourselves right. That was your choice. I didn’t ask you to do that but when that’s happening when you’re so quick to defend you’re not really hearing hurt you’re not really hearing how it’s impacted your partner. You’re not hearing the consequences. You’re not hearing how they felt. Life has passed them by. You’re not hearing how they feel when they have to live in the shadows on you get to live in the spotlight right or it might be perceived that way they’re partner may think i wasn’t always in the spotlight. This is really really hard. I carried this full home financially and there are times when i felt like i couldn’t make could come to you because you wouldn’t understand so each person experiences it differently always looks like the grass is greener on the side. You know you get to play with the kids and and make fancy meal than what soap operas all day trying to bust my butt trying to make sure that we have a root of our heads. It always looks different. And so it’s really really important but space is given to each person to share their on reality. What i often do is when one partner is allowed to share their reality. I get the other person than to rephrase it. Can you tell me what she just said doesn’t have to be word for. Just tell me what you think you hurt. And once in the retelling of what they’ve heard it starts to sink in because now you’re almost putting yourself in the other person’s shoes just by saying the story out of your own. And what a great technique you’ve created a buffer to kind of just stop the immediate defensiveness right because we’re all defensive No one wants to be wrong. No one wants to hurt someone they care about. No one wants to be part of making them feel badly over years and years or even for a minute. So i love that. You know what i’m hearing from. You is like that just lets it. Sink in for a moment. Yeah and it must. I’m sure there’s something chemical in the body where that creates more empathy. It does create them if the mushroom with the chemical reaction but it does empathy. And that’s what we’re looking for when you’re able to see things from the other person’s point of view it bridges bat divide and people begin to return a little easier so i. I really appreciate that. You’re able to facilitate this in session. And i can really hear how important it is. For couples to go to a facilitated conversation whether you call it therapy or counseling psychotherapy it’s a facilitated conversation and i want to acknowledge that not. Everybody can do that. Yeah like when. I hear you speak like oh yeah this would definitely be easier with you at the helm you. You tell me when to speak to you. Tell me what to say. I won’t interrupt brandon. You’ll tell me when it’s his turn my turn for people who can’t aren’t willing to get to therapy or have only one partner is open to going or they just don’t have the budget or time for it right now. How do you do this at home. Like how what technique can you employees too. Slow your roll dive into the defensiveness or the pac. One of the things that i encourage people to do is ready. Trevor letters and i don’t mean type it up in your notes or send them email mean actually all school get a pen and notepad and write the process of slowing down to put your thoughts on paper it can take out some of the steam it can take out some of the accusatory kind of tone so i often suggest that the other being that i suggest is asking yourselves. If you’re going to be talking about this at home before you have a conversation ask yourself. What do you think is your partners intent because sometimes we feel like our partner engages in this way or they always do this for bailey’s without my question is do you think they intended to hurt your feelings. What do you think was there intact when you have been at home. These past twelve thirteen fourteen. Fifteen years and your partner has been working. What do you think they’re intent. What’s d think. Their intent was to just thirty in the corner so they could live it up. Is you really think. Because if that’s the case you have to think about that. I choose someone who’s intent has been to hurt me all this time and so you really. It really causes us to to reflect and think about this person not we chose there.

00:30:01 – 00:35:02

The thing i ask people about is think about when you first got together because oftentimes when he first got together. It’s amazing and then i asked. What do you think happened. Where was that. Where was that shift. And when you can think about bat shift when you can identify shifts. Then let’s talk to each other about that shift. Let’s not talk about right now. But let’s talk about when things started to go a little bit different. What do you think happened. Do you find that people can pinpoint or is it more. gradual depends. Some people are able to right away and some people have to think about that a little bit. Some people can say oh. Yeah it was right after my second kid was born. Am i gained forty pounds immediately. Other people it’s more gradual. It’s building of the distance when they start to not see each other as much. You know knifes and it gets in the way were maybe school paying the bill the career of all of that stuff maybe children sometimes that gets in the way and the free note. That’s all we’re talking about. We don’t about each other anymore. Yeah we got to but we talk about the stock market. We’ve talked about children. We talk about my aging parents. You don’t talk about each other. Right family work schedules like i was saying. That’s like the dark triad. That’s all you have. Where’s the passion. Where’s the desire wears the excitement. Where’s the real vulnerable connection like. We haven’t had a chance to talk about part of resentment. I think is an avoidance of vulnerability. Yes yes it is. It is much easier to stay angry than to say like man. I feel lonely is much easier to be frustrated over division of labor than to say you know. I really regret a decision that i made. So there’s so much avoidance. I feel like you’ve given us so many tools for letting over so recognizing it on having these conversations retelling what your partner has sadly restating it to better understand it. You said what was the next thing. apologizing making amends. Yeah i’m going back to your early story discussing. Where the was. I imagine that expression of appreciation can also help to offset resented. The guy was think of that scene. I remember what the movie was called. But it’s with meal kounellis and the therapists asked them to say three things they love about the partner and what is. She says that she really appreciates. When will i he says can can go. First husband says can my wife go first. He has nothing to say and she says i really appreciate when he picks up the kids from school. That actually helps me out a lot. And then he says. I like her cooking at her ziti. Does that count as things. But i think. I don’t know with brandon with you i. It’s so many so easy for me to say so many things i appreciate about you. I feel there’s ongoing expressions of appreciation and the flow in both directions. And i think that’s something that i’m sure is a therapist. You have to train people because if you never heard that growing up how do you all of a sudden being so abusive with compliments or thanks or gratitude and i also really appreciate the letter writing actually thinking about letter. Writing stresses me out. Because it’s so slow. And i like fast. Could i make notes on the computer. That’s what i was thinking. There have been been circumstances. Where you and i have had disagreements and we’ve ended up writing each other letters another not letters they might be a long email or a long texts and i’ve actually found it very very helpful because before i send it i can read it and start analyzing. I didn’t mean it this. This came across too harsh roller. Did you change your wording. So that what. I’m trying to get at is. I’m trying to communicate in a way to resolve or find some common ground or or fix the problem right. We’re trying to get out of this in a positive way. This argument right. That’s the way i approach yet. So right in the letter is almost like for me rather than that jerk. Response that just what you were saying i. Actually i need to take like a thirty second break before i respond. Because if i take a minute and don’t snap back with a quick answer. And i just let myself think about one. I’m going to say even just not brief pause changes however small. Yeah for me. it’s more effective. I hope think communicate more effectively. They say you shouldn’t resolve. Try and resolve arguments overtaxed. And you see all of the kind of posts about that and the experts are saying so i have to say and this just speaks to the fact that there are no universal truths when it comes to relationships. We have resolved arguments over taxed so effectively. And i appreciate it so much. I don’t think we’re just shooting off like weren’t i wouldn’t say we’re fighting feel. Maybe that’s just semantics. I feel like we’re trying to resolve something come to a resolution as opposed to throwing or hurling accusations but i find it so useful overtax for exactly the reason you’re saying brinton. Which is that. You get a moment to pause. I’m a literal person. I’d always rather read than listen. And you can edit and delete. I i don’t know if you run into this ruxandra if like maybe i’m way off because every year i’ve ever talked to has always said no. No no you’re wrong. You’re wrong. But i think it works for you because you brandon are already really good communicators.

00:35:02 – 00:39:46

You are already quite instinct. I can tell. I could tell from this listening to podcasts. That you guys have recorded together. Because they’re very much instinct and you guys are effective communicators and so it really really helps when you are able to communicate about way. The couples i have met the ones who struggle with communicating over text resolving disputes for text. They’re really not good at communicating to begin with and so they fire off these accusations in these mean statements and then before you know it bear deeper in than they were before right on for those people i say unit face to face conversation need to slow this down with letter writing because the text is just not helpful because people fire things off and baits arrow or they hit send before they read it over before they consider. How is there the partner gonna feel reading with that. No i can’t say we’ve said we’re not like saying mean things to each other. It’s more like here’s what i’m thinking. Here’s what i’m struggling. with right. And believe it or not text slows us down slows me down but letter writing. Seems like something that we could definitely explore brandon. Anything to add on them. And i thought you were going to say so much more about the resentment in your relationships. No i mean. I’ve just listening and i’m just listening and learning and and for me i find you commented on how anger is an ugly emotionally people associated. So it’s like. I never wanna be angry. I never. I never wanna go there. It’s like oh i’m not. i’m not angry. i’m not angry but the reality is as i am angry. And i’m i know now. I’m allowed to be angry but i think for me. I acquainted anger with like a full stop. It was like that’s it i’m angry. There’s no solution here as opposed to. I’m angry this is why. I know that there’s a solution here it is. I had that happened recently. Where i was so worked up like i was. This accumulated over the course of about that been going on for a long time but i had to discussion after the discussion. It was like the sun came out and rainbows were there and everything was so much better. Now it’s not completely resolved. But i had let it fester and get so bad that i was so irritated was manifesting itself physiologically. I was having bad sleeps. It was just affecting my mood in so many different ways. And i knew that i needed to have this conversation. Didn’t wanna have it. I had the conversation and immediately thereafter. I was just because of these physiological responses. I was having so i was just so adverse to being angry when it was like no you can i. Can i now know. I can be angry but i should also have a solution to work my way out of anger in a productive way. And just before i let you go. Is there a piece to where not everything can be. Resolved where like we have to accept some degree of residual anger or some degree of residual conflicts like. Do you find that with with relationships that we can’t solve every little thing you know. There are some things actions that have happened. That may not be. You may not be able to go back and take things about right. He can’t ring that bell. Once you club. That sound has gone right in some situations have passed away and there’s been no resolution relationships have ended. People have moved away. You can’t get in touch with them. There’s no resolution and so you now have to make peace with yourself right in order to move on. Sometimes you have to forgive that person in absentia like you just have to pretend that they’re there you just have to sometimes in. It will come to me sometimes. I get them to write a therapeutic letter where you were talking about personal about how they’ve wrong do about you know you can offer them forgiveness if you feel like it. Forgiveness is not always accessible to everybody and giving yourself the permission to move on. It can be hard but it’s important that makes sense in that letter writing even if they will never read it can be such an. I think powerful exercise You’ve provided us with so many strategies so much perspective on resentment and hopefully people will feel like whatever little resentment or big resentment. They’re feeling they have additional tools now to address it within yourself or if you have a partner partners with with your partners as well roxanne francis. Thank you so much for your time and insights today. Where can people find. You could find me on. Instagram and facebook at francis psychotherapy always my website francis psychotherapy dot com. And i may just show up on your somewhere just talking about all kinds of stuff related to mental health. Awesome and we do have many therapists who listen so you. When is your next clinical supervision or support group opening. Yes so that opens up in october. But a four-month spam and we do clinical groups division. So i’m happy to have new people on board. Bacon joined the weightless that francis psychotherapy dot com slash weightless awesome. Thank you so much. We’ll put all of those links in the show notes. Thank you folks for listening wherever you’re at have a great one. You’re listening to the sex with dr jess podcast. Improve your sex life improve your life.