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March 12, 2021

How to Break Up With A Friend

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Dr. Shari Nicole, Psychologist and Key Consultant of Everyday Psychology, joins us to talk about the importance and challenge of adult friendships. We discuss cutoff culture, attachments styles, boosting confidence and more including answers to these common questions:

  • How many friends do most people have?
  • How do childhood experiences affect adult friendships?
  • How do you know if a friendship is worth saving?
  • How do you know that it’s time to break up with a friend?
  • How do you go about breaking up with a friend?
  • How do friendships affect intimate relationships?
  • How do friendships differ according to gender?
  • How can you be more confident in your friendships?

Follow Dr. Shari on Instagram and Facebook. Be sure to check out her podcast 3 Psychs and a Mic.

Please see here for a rough version of this transcript.

This podcast has been sponsored by Let’sGetChecked. Use code DRJESS to save at checkout!

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

How to Break Up With A Friend

00:00:05 – 00:05:03

You’re listening to the sacs with dr jess podcast sacks and relationship advice you can use tonight Welcome to the sex with dr. Just podcast i’m your co host brandon. Wear here with my lovely other. Half dr jess how are you. I’m good man. You know. I’m excited for today. Because i have a lot to learn about this topic we are going to be talking about friendship and it is such an important topic because friendship’s just like intimate relationships can have such a significant effect on your mental health. You’re physical health happiness life. Ill meant and as i started digging into the research while one thing i found is that social isolation has actually increased over the last few decades in north america. And i’m talking far prior to covid. And i was looking at the two thousand six study found that the number of friends people feel they can discuss important matters with reduce to well. There’s two in there. That’s pretty good. Yeah so it fell from two point nine four so almost three in one thousand nine hundred five to two point. Zero eight thousand four. I’m sorry but that’s all right is does does your partner. If you’re in a relationship does your partner count as a friend to the in this study. Do you know that’s a great question. I’m not sure. Because i feel like i don’t know that i would have two point nine or three friends with whom i would feel comfortable discussing serious matters. I think i can think of one. Maybe two depending on the topic. But if if you’re not in that mix it’s it’s now you know you can’t tell mysterious That’s interesting because i start to think about my numbers. And how do i say this. I’m not sure it’s particularly relevant. How many there are right. I don’t know that it’s that. I need eight versus four. Or you know. It’s so easy to say like when i was counting. You know as i do this. I have you and there are four others in my life whom i feel. I can approach with really serious stuff. There are probably actually more than that. But there’s four that i’m kind of close with and i don’t wanna look at this and say oh i’m above the two point zero eight. I think really what matters is the quality of the relationship as opposed to the number of friends. But as i did dig into the research. There’s so much data Suggesting that you know strong. Social ties are tied to overall health so from lower blood pressure to recovering from disease to lower inflammation to a lower risk of dementia age which makes sense and apparently your social connections are are actually associated with living longer so i looked at this research review of one hundred forty eight previous studies and it included three hundred thousand participants in what they found. Was that the effect of your social ties on your life. Span is twice as strong as exercising or the equivalent to quitting smoking. While that’s pretty intense funny that you mentioned this whole numbers game because it goes back to this concept that you’ve thrown out before in in this podcast which is it’s not always about the quantity as it is about quality it’s like we measure relationships based on how long they have lasted as opposed to how good they are even in shorter periods of time. I think about my friend game. And i feel like my friend game is lacking in and i think a lot of ways. It’s my fault. I i haven’t really made an effort at times in my life to reach out to my friends and i think that there are Social elements that lead into that there have. There’s the patriarch plays into that like there’s a lot at play there. Yeah i think one of the things. I’m sometimes a bit self conscious about is that i don’t have many life life. Lifelong friends right. Like i’m not really in touch with a ton of people from my super young years. And so when i think about the people who are in my life. I haven’t been friends with them for decades upon decades. But there’s some story. I’m telling myself that says. Oh you should write. It should be a childhood friend. I can think. I have one only one childhood friend with whom i’m still in touch and we don’t talk often just because we we live kind of a crime we live very far away and then have one high school friend who wasn’t really a high school friend because she only went to my high school for a couple of months and stay in touch with her.

00:05:03 – 00:10:23

But very it’s very sporadic. Like we could not talk for years. But i i value the friendship and i love when we connect so. I think i’m a little have to admit him a little self conscious about this topic. But i’m happy that dr shari nicole. She’s a psychologist and the key consultant with everyday psychology. She’s going to be joining us to help us. Better understand our friendships. She’s going to help us understand how to know one. A friendship is worth keeping versus how to know when it’s perhaps time to end the friendship and go about that but before we welcome her. I do want to shout out. Get check dot com where you can order almost any health test online. Anything you can imagine from hormones to s t is to liver to diabetes you order online at. Let’s get checked dot com. They ship you everything you need to collect your sample and send it back in and you get your results online in a matter of days in a bunch of are already using this because i do have a discount code. Please go learn more at. Let’s get checked dot com. Please use the code doctor jest to save and also so that they know that you heard about them here and now i guess we dive into this sort of sensitive topic Without further ado. Let’s welcome dr charen psychologist with everyday. Psychology thank you so much for joining us to chat about friendships and breakup today. Yes yes thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here now. I thought of this topic. Not only because it’s something that i think i’ve struggled with and brennan has struggled with. But you also have a podcast three six and a mike and you covered this recently with a couple of other psychologists we did we. Did we actually talk about friendship. Quite a bit on our show. I was just going back in listening to some episodes in prepped for today and we had a couple of episodes around friendships around friendships as an adult. Because that’s a whole nother ballgame and We think it’s so important one because the three of us are actually really good friends. And so we’ve actually been through kind of the ups and downs. That happened with friendships but also because friendships are one of those central relationships in our lives. And we don’t often talk about them. and so yeah so working with two close friends. that’s really interesting. i don’t i. Don’t i brennan. I had worked together only very very part time. Only on this single project of the podcast but it brings up issues in the relationship Mostly my fault. I would say we. We’ve had our moments for sure. It’s more me like let’s just admit it. I freak out about things. Normally you don’t freak out. But i’ve found just over the last six to twelve months of the pandemic and some of the added stressors. There’ve been moments that i think. You’ve at overreacted. Maybe i’m speaking to place. But i feel like you’ve overreacted. Is just not able for you. Because normally you’re quite level headed and rational but all the other emotions that come to the surface come out in some of our discussions shaken pop bottle right now. I’ve been shaken pop a while. So i think we’re there yet so working with friends. Has that shifted the relationship at all so there are moments of course where you know. The work blends into the friendship. But i think we’re very Intentional around when we are doing work the when we’re recording prepping it is specifically focused on work and then when we have our friend moments. We don’t talk about the pod. We don’t talk about the work together. and it doesn’t help that you know. We’re all psychologists so you know we. We had that added layer of being able to notice if things are spilling over or if those lines are getting blurred but there have been moments. Where if there’s a little bit of a rift in the friendship it kind of spills over to you know how much patience we may have with one another on recording day or you know those types of things but we really try to catch him. Try to catch those rifts early but there have been moments where it’s like wait a minute. That’s that’s not a podcast feeling at all. Burn ship feeling and vice versa. That that makes total sense now as a psychologist. How much do you see friendship issues. Coming up in practice with your clients like are they talking about. Their friends often are struggling with communication with friends for sure. No it’s constantly it’s constantly And i think because our friends like i said is one of the most central relationships that we tend to have and it’s central throughout our entire lives right so even if i wasn’t i always joke and say i wasn’t allowed to date until i was like out of high school but i still had friends at that point right so even from our earliest relationships friendships kind of mirror throughout our lives.

00:10:23 – 00:15:15

And so you here or i hear so. Many people coming in throughout the lifespan talking about how their friendships are either adding to or depleting or kind of taking away from their enjoyment from their day to day values and things of that nature. And so there. There’s always a tinge in there of you know. What are those relationships like. What are those friendships like. And how can we continue to enhance them so that they continue to add to the life that we’re building ourselves you know. We often think about with regard to intimate relationships biden. Our friendships are also shaped by our early experiences. And one thing that really strikes me. And i really want to get your take on attachment styles and how it affects friendships been. I wanted to note. And i don’t know if you’ve observed us that so many of the friendships that are represented in popular media are not always the not. I don’t wanna use the word healthy but not always necessarily what we’d like them to be. And i’m thinking about i’m just gonna describe this to people for folks who don’t watch it but i’m thinking about brooklyn nine nine. We are sure that tries to take a stand on things that tries to model a variety of i think behaviors and interactions that that other shows haven’t touched but the friendship between jake. Who’s kind of the the star and his his best friend. Charles charles’s possessive and jealous and doesn’t want him having any other friends. Even the cannibal subordinate. Yes there there’s an element where he worships. Jake and ray j kind of feeds into that and that’s just one silly little example so if we had no that makes me think about charleston’s style and you know his exactly so let’s go back to attachment styles how our attachment styles that we learn in our earlier shape relationships friendships not just intimately ups. I love the the tv reference. ’cause i am always in the space of like all cash. Let’s look at these dynamics here you know and people are like. Let’s just watch the show. But definitely i think our attachment styles are. They play a huge role in just how we engage in relationships. Period and friendships are not exempt from that So for those who may not know fully about attachment theory basically just describes how we create bonds in our lives based on the ways. In which the bonding with carried out in our early relationships. So it’s it’s it’s focused on bonds. It’s focused on how we typically connect to others around us in those bonds in our early relationships are usually mirrored by you know what we gain from our caregivers so parents or grandparents or whomever was a caregiver you in that moment And so in our early lives we always get these messages about how safely how to safely engage with others and we also learn how to gain love from other than how to give love to others and so this often leads to how we attach it leads to how we engage with the closeness that happens in relationships and so that’s kind of a a brief overview of a full attachment theory. But you know as we are going through our lives. We get so many messages Whether they be indirect or direct right so whether people are saying hey. This is how you behave in friendships. Or you see how others are behaving in friendships And so we get these messages and sometimes they leave us feeling securely attached which means that. We’re often grounded in our ability to trust the closeness and the distance that will happen relationships Or we’re happened in friendships. And then on the other hand we can also be left with those more. Insecure attachment switch are mostly described as like avoid attachment or dismissive attachments. And we can have more anxiety or anx around that closeness or that distance and that trust that happens in our friendships and so depending on kind of where you fall in that continuum whether those attachments can be secure. You’re going to be able to or you’re going to engage in different ways right so if you are developing those secure attachments you’re okay with distance you’re okay with talking to a friend and then maybe go in a week or so and then being able to not think.

00:15:15 – 00:20:01

Oh my gosh. That friend has left me. I think in me. But you’re secure in that closeness in that distance you are able to trust that however if you have that more anxious that more Avoid or dismissive attachment oftentimes. There’s a lot of anxiety around the connection. There’s a lot of anxiety around the distance so if that person isn’t there isn’t attending to you in a certain way there may be this thought of they’ve left me you know. What do i need to do to get them back. What do i need to do to connect them to me again or to attach again and so it it. It’s really an interesting way to look at the ways we act in friendships. And the ways that our friends actor engaged with us And so like i said. Those messages are sometimes explicit around those relationships and then sometimes pretty pretty in explicit as well I can say. I’ve got very specific messages from my mom growing up about the need to have one to two best friends. No more like yeah more than that. You just need one or you just need to But i’ve heard others say that they got messages about leveraging friendships social capital right so being able to have a wealth of friends because it opens up connections. And so you know it. It’s just different. You know depending on how you’re getting those throughout your early childhood out attachment styles and friendships. And it’s maybe not something i’ve considered because i’ve always thought about it in the intimate context it really offers a reminder that your attachment style isn’t fixed right you can be jess securely attached in some relationships or types of relationships and more insecure anxiously or disorganized In others like. I can say for myself that i feel very secure lee. Attached always in my intimate relationships have sort of felt okay but in friendships less so and can kind of go back to my younger years maybe not fitting in the being mixed race and kind of not really having a group and i look back at like high school really not having a lot of friends hardly of my own doing because i kind of i would say ditch them for a boyfriend and also not fitting in a really homogenous highschool like really just not liking it there and that. So that’s you know. I’m thinking back to one thousand nine hundred four That still affects me today. And i’m wondering. Do we hold more unrealistic standards for friendships. Like maybe we’re more avoidance in intimate relationships. We hurt each other. We fight we apologize. We make amends. We move forward. We don’t give up. Walk away for the most part at the first sign of disagreement or tension. And we’ve been told that it is okay to engage in conflict. We’ve been told it’s normal so of course there are people who avoid it but for the most part people don’t so how do you kind of yeah make sure you apply this to friendships. Like i can say. I’ll just speak for myself. I’m more avoidance of conflict in friendships. So how do i kind of put you through this and be more straightforward. Now that have given my history and therapies me. You know. I think that makes sense right so i think we get so many opportunities to talk about intimate or relation or romantic relationships. Like we have like. Hey you know. I’ve got a new friend friends or like me about. Let’s talk about him. But if you’re like i’ve got a new like best friend. People are like oh good for you. You know it’s not it’s like great okay and so. I think you know there that it’s so important to create these spaces where we’re able to say how am i engaging in my friendships. In a way that is healthy right. We put those labels on how. How am i engaging in my friendships. That is is connecting us. And how might not be and it’s going to different. Because with intimate relationships with romantic relationships there are different dynamics. You do different things. You’re hanging together in different ways and so with friendships. I think we often don’t put the level of thought into them. We don’t think about it as you know. We have to intentionally be invested in the relationship with intimate relationships. You know you hear people say oh you know. Intimate relationships are work.

00:20:01 – 00:25:00

You know you always have to come and you gotta be ready but with friendships. It’s like oh you just click or you don’t and that’s not always the case because you make quick but their baby moments where that clicking is happening for different reasons and in those moments it’s brilliant important to say. Wait a minute. it’s not a a we just don’t fit together anymore. Actually do have to come and i have to put in the work as well because this is a relationship just like any other relationship in my life. Do you find that. There’s a difference in terms of what you know. The sexes like how how interact. I’m listening to everything that you have to say. And i’m thinking about my own relationships and i’ve found that i’m guilty of not having had invested in to my release my friendships and they still work. I’m still friends with those individuals. But when i think about how. They’ve not dissolved. Maybe become less intense or less We just we interact less. I realized that. I’m not investing into those relationships. Like i did before now whole bunch. We could probably unpack there but do you find that men tend to do this more than women. Is there a difference there in terms of who’s willing to invest into friendships. That’s a great question. That’s a great the question of the sexes right. But no i do. Think that we women and men Across the genders get different messages about friendships and we get different messages about how to show up in friendships And so i know. I can speak for my own personal self for black women. Oftentimes the messages. That we get about friendships. Are you know you can’t really get along like if you think about. Tv shows right if we go back to that we think about like the housewives series or all of these different Really shows that are showcasing friendships. Often times it does say like you know you should cut this person off right. We get that cutoff culture. That’s evidence and so. I think being able to think about just all of the pieces and identities of who we are and how ships are characterized in those pieces right so for women. Oftentimes our friendships are that. You know that leaning force like this is the person that i go to. This is my person right. Think about grey’s anatomy is my person But for men. I think oftentimes they don’t get those say messages around. You can have a person that’s also a guy or that’s also a friend that doesn’t have to be a romantic or intimate partner. And so i think there is that gap in messaging that often impacts our behaviors and how the choices that we make when it comes to friendship again. Reflect dot com growing up at my friendships are really. They really revolved around sports and activities and those friendships. We weren’t to open up and be vulnerable. And it’s only as i’ve gotten older that i’ve sat. I’ve found the opportunity. And i think i’ve pushed my comfort zone with certain select individuals to try and open up. And that’s more. I’m comfortable doing it. And i think it was also comfortable just putting myself out there. But it wasn’t something that i grew up being. That was reinforced. Where it’s like. this is your friend. They’re here to support you in good times and bad it was like this. Is your friend. Ugo play hockey with them. You go to the bar or you may ask you. Did your dad have any friends. No i don’t wanna put my dad on the spot here. I’d wanna speak entirely on his behalf. But what i grew up experiencing was that his He he didn’t have as many close friends and the friends that i saw him have there. There wasn’t that disclosure that vulnerability those co those deeper conversations again. I don’t i didn’t sit on all all the conversations that my dad had with his friends. But when i did see them they tended to be very what i perceive to be. One dimensional so. I mimic that behavior when i started having my my friends circle but again last five to ten years it’s changed but it only changed with. What dr shari you’re saying about that in that investment it was like did you put in the time and the effort that took me realizing and doing now. I love that point. I think you raised a really amazing point. Because for women are friendships are centered around vulnerability. They’re centered around. This is the person you can share your soul with right. And then you do activities if you can’t and so i hear using for men it’s based around activity. There’s a task.

00:25:00 – 00:30:02

This is what we’re coming together to do. We’re coming together. The play sports or to build something or to do something and then if there are moments where we need to be vulnerable. We can do that too. So that’s that reverse around the role of the friendship and it plays in your life. That that’s an interesting commentary from me because my friendships more revolved also around activity. And i think that’s maybe why. I had you know friends of all genders but a lot of my buddies like we played sports together or we went for a drink together and only in the last few years. Have i developed these more intimate friendships with a small handful of people. I want to go back. And just say that. I kept talking about intimate relationships when that’s not even the right language because friendships can be intimate relationships. But i really should be saying like romantic relationships. And i have a couple of friends in my life right now where i i look forward to growing old with them right like in. That’s that’s for the first time in my life that i’ve felt that yeah. It’s very interesting. I i still have the insecure attachment style. Where i worry about it And i’m aware of that but my take home from what you’ve said thus far is really. I need to invest in those relationships. And part of why. I haven’t is that my lifestyle has not been has not facilitated that rightly prior to covid. I just flying around all the time and really just traveling and traveling and working and working and my friends are on the ground here in toronto. And so that’s a very different lifestyle brandon as my partner can into that because he would come with me or he’d be like waiting for me or you know he’s included in it So you really have given me something to think about about this intentional investment. Which i think. I’ve done over relieved. Don i don’t know if that’s the word but i’ve made that investment over the last year because of cova ’cause i’ve been home and i need to think about when life returns to normal. How am i going to do that from afar. You brought something else up which is cut off culture and i wanna talk about this a little. How do you know if you should break up with a friend because not every relationship ought to last forever and i always say that the measure of our relationship is not its longevity. It’s the quality. So what do you do if you feel like breaking up with a friend. How do you know if you should break up with a friend. How the heck do you do it. That is a great question We often talk about making friends in the importance of meeting new people but sometimes we forget how difficult it can be to keep friends Especially in like you said that age of cut coulter But when thinking about whether your friendship is worth saving. I often encourage people to think about the friendship as the star of the show and not the friend. And i do this because friends are people and guess what people do. From time to time we met. We heard those we love. We hurt those we care about. We do things that aren’t always consistent with our intentions so when evaluating the friendship and whether it’s worth saving i often say put the relationship itself on the stand an actor yourself a series of questions about the friendship and not the french so asking questions like does this friendship. Ads in my life Do you honestly believe that. The friendship is an obligation like you said. Sometimes we’re friends because i’ve known them since kindergarten right. So is it an obligation or do you truly feel like this. Friendship is needed in your life to flourish right Do you feel like you’re growing as a result of engaging in this friendship After evaluating the friendship in this way then you can get some clarity around the worth of the friendship to you. Not the person Because sometimes we say well. This person just made me mad today or they’ve been you know falling shore over the past month. Maybe i should cut off. The friendship is like we’re comparing apples to oranges right now. So thinking about the friendship as the star of the show can give you some clarity around that so if you come to the conclusion that maybe the friendship isn’t serving you or it’s causing you more distress at than it is bringing joy or support. Where do you even begin. Like do brennan. Ub were talking earlier about. Maybe we accidentally you kind of accidentally ghost. A friend is not that i yeah. I mean thinking about the friends that i’ve had or some of the friends that i grew up with that in high school after high school became acquaintances bast.

00:30:02 – 00:35:06

And it’s not that. I don’t like them. It’s just that we had a falling out. We kind of went in there separate direction. So i was wondering is it okay to just kind of naturally let those relationships dissipate or kind of dissolve and if i were to reconnect with some of those people. I’m happy to. But i’m also don’t want to be a jerk because over the last five ten fifteen twenty years. We just don’t talk to each other anymore. So i guess it goes back to. How do you effectively break up with a friend. And his ghost dating somebody which was accidental. Considered a form of break-up. Yeah that’s a great question. And and i think it i hate to give the it depends answer. That’s a good answer but it does. It depends on the closeness of the relationship right. So i have friends that i was absolutely close to in high school But then after graduation we kinda just faded. The friendship faded. And i often say those are period relationships or friendships. As opposed to kind of those really close those really have life partnerships that you see with friends and i say like partnerships not meaning over the span of life but life partnerships. Meaning the depth of the friendship And so i think it’s important to think about what type of relationship or what type of friends this is I am not a big fan of ghosting For a number of reasons Often say it’s really important to be able to state where you are in someone’s light so that you can act accordingly so that they can act accordingly but it’s also important to note that all friendships go through rough patches and rocky moment so if you’ve actually got into the space of thinking about breaking up with your friends i always say i assume that a few stages have already passed. You’ve already kind of passed a couple of checkpoints one is that there has been some prior conversations with an openly stated. The needs that you need from this friendship. The next checkpoint is that you have an experience that for in putting forth any intentional effort to change or any tension intention analogy around meeting. Those needs that you’ve stated that third checkpoint is that you’ve put that friendship on the stand like we said you know you put it on the stage and you found it unworthy of of saving and then the fourth is that you’ve been able to make that decision to sever the ties at on your own without others or without other friends in the fringe group saying like. Yeah you should know you shouldn’t In after you’ve kinda gone through those stages then you can start to have this faith of conversation around the the need to break up In often say that first step after those stages conversation that you have with that other person because it allows them to know where they fit Or were they don’t fit in your life And allows you to be able to set boundaries with yourself when it comes to that other person that’s all super helpful and also it’s heavy on the harsh to even dislike it link of that process and we don’t give ourselves necessarily the space to grieve the loss of a friend relationship right. We don’t call and ask people to rally around us. I find this so interesting and also so like it sad to me but some things in life. I guess are sad. I would love to ask you one last question. And i’ve never wanted to have someone back so quickly. ’cause i’m like there’s so many more questions yeah is it okay. Maybe it’s a two part question. I lied it. Is it okay to put some of this in writing for a friend versus face to face not the surly that it’s like here’s my email. Don’t contact me but for some of us were more like i communicate more through the written word. Is that okay. and what. What even language do you begin to you choose. Yeah those are great questions. And the first dylan is absolutely communication whether it’s written whether it’s verbal whether it’s like liturgical dance like it’s still communicating. Right dance you out of this group. Like jean brooklyn. Nine nine exactly. So it’s a. It’s a way of communicating and i think written communication can often be Extremely needed in these situations because when speaking oftentimes we feel like we have to say the first thing that comes to mind and sometimes the first thing tomorrow that comes to mind is not you being in your best self right and so being able to write out.

00:35:06 – 00:40:13

I’m a written person to i write out everything. That’s how my brain just kind of works that way and so if you’re able to write out those words that you need to say and then being able to either you know. Send them to a friend and then saying we can still talk about this. You know not completely shutting it off at that moment but being able to write it out being able to kind of give some space to where your thoughts are. Give some some back story to wear. It is like i said hopefully conversations will have been had but it just allows you to Get all of your thoughts in a space that feel congruent and feel like you’re able to state what you need so often say with communication. It’s whatever works best for you and for their friendship right And so you don’t have to do a long speech if you’re not an orator and so being able to know like this is something that is going to. It has the feel comfortable for you. Because break-up from a friend is just uncomfortable and sad and difficult in its definition and so we don’t want to add anything that’s gonna make it more difficult in that space As far as the language to us. I think it’s very important to be intentional. About the language that you do use to state the importance around what this is to state you know. I often say talk like be authentic and transparent and how this process has been for you so if it’s been difficult and you’ve been kind of mulling over this for a couple of weeks or a couple of months it’s okay to state that to allow the person to know. This wasn’t a split decision. This isn’t something that i just woke up today and wanted to throw you out. You know this is something that actually thought about. I was intentional about and being able to allow. that can also allow the other person’s. I have a clean break right because oftentimes people want to come back and say but did you think about that. Have you thought about you know and so it just allows for that to happen that that’s so helpful and it’s really the opposite of cutoff culture which is so reactionary. This is thoughtful and intentional for me. Personally there’s just there’s a lot to unpack here. And i’m so grateful for your time and your perspective and even walking us through those checkpoints. It’s not this thing that comes out of left field like it does on reality television. You know where they throw a drink in your face and that’s it. This is something really thoughtful. So i i don’t know to me. There’s a lot to digest here a lot of action items for me especially around the intention -ality of investing in friendships the way i invest in my romantic relationships and also my familial relationships are very intentional. But i think. I’ve lacked that any to on that so for sure. Thank you so much. Thank you for your insight your time. Dr shari nicole psychologists psychology also one of the three hosts of three sykes and a mike which i really encourage people to listen to. We’ll be putting all your links in the show notes. So thank you so much. I learned a lot of course so much as always so much. Yeah thank you for having me. And like i said you know talking about friendships is an ongoing process and so definitely definitely x. Open and willing to talk about this more with you. Love that thank you. Yeah yeah this is such an interesting and important discussion and these are my favorite conversations. Because i’m not just learning professionally or engaging you know with research data. I’m really getting a lot about a lot out of this personally yet. There’s so much here. For me to reflect on. And i i look forward to taking the time to reflect because as i’ve gotten older my friend games i coined before has gotten a little bit weaker and i’ve had to actively go out of my way to maintain the relationships seek different types of friendships. Ones that yeah. I still meet up with people to play sports or to hang out but there are others where i do that. And we also have deeper more vulnerable or emotional conversations. That i take a lot out of and i hope i’m also giving back to those people in you know being able to listen or being there to share in their experiences to based on my relationship with you i imagine you are. Well it’s it really is such a rich conversation. And i do want to apart to with dr sharia because i have many more questions and some theories about how we make our friends when we’re younger and why sometimes it makes it harder to make new friends because you only have so much space in your life and when you’re young you don’t kind of say you don’t hand select your friends you fall into these friendships because of proximity.

00:40:13 – 00:41:27

Because of i. I don’t see absolutely also as a child that y- your interests are not more basic but when i think about being a kid it was. Let’s go to the park. Let’s ride our bike. Let’s play a sport. Let’s play cards. Whatever that’s exactly the things i do with my friends. Now your interests are different. There are also you know as an individual you’ve created opinions and you have beliefs and you have things that will differentiate you and stop you from being friends with some people and change your friendships over time. These are all things that again just so much more to discuss in this room right. And it’s not that we want to exist in an echo chamber but sometimes the differences can be can be quite traumatic right it can be really very emotionally wearing. So that’s something to talk about for next time. Well thanks for chatting with dave thank. Thanks to dr shari. That was great. Yeah good things to you for listening. We’ll be back next week and every week with a brand new episode. You’re listening to the sex with dr jazz podcast. Improve your sex life improve your life.