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June 12, 2020

Empathy Is A Superpower: How to Cultivate Trust, Have More Fulfilling Relationships & Work Through Trauma

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Marriage and family therapist Shadeen Francis joins us to talk about X-Men, therapy, vulnerability and emptying the jug. She helps us to explore the following questions:

• How can the “emptying the jug” approach lead to more fulfilling relationships?
• How can we even begin to open up and let our guard down?
• What language can we use if we’re new to opening up and letting others in?
• How can empathy transform experiences?
• How is self-esteem tied to vulnerability?
• What does it mean to be vulnerable — the good and the bad?
• How can distraction be useful when dealing with difficult experiences?
• How can we improve communication around challenging topics?
• How can we open up and be more open to being emotionally impacted?

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Empathy Is A Superpower: How to Cultivate Trust, Have More Fulfilling Relationships & Work Through Trauma

00:00:05 – 00:05:02

You’re listening to the sacs with Dr Jess podcast sacks and relationship advice. You can use tonight. Welcome to the sex with Dr Jess podcast I’m your co host, Brandon wear here with my lovely partner Dr Jess Hey. Hey, now before we get started, I want to show our sponsor. Let’s get checked. Use Code, Dr Justice Save on at home. STI testing hormone testing, other health tests go to let’s get checked. Dot Com, and please enter code Dr. Justice Save and let them know that you learned about them here. Now today we are joined by Shea Dean Francis, marriage and family therapists with a specialty in sex therapy and social justice sheer to talk about her work, and how you can learned open up and be more vulnerable, and how this can improve your relationships and change your life welcomed. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me now. You Are Toronto. Born like me. You are a transplant and you’re. You’re in Philly now. So what brought you into the field of sex therapy So the short version of the story was that my original plan was to join the X men, and it. It felt like a reasonable extension. To then get really into the world of sex kind of my. My link was through Sue Johannesen Henson talk, sex with sue and I. Came across her work at a time when I was really realizing that there weren’t open dialogue, there weren’t places where people could go to have. These conversations and someone had called in to her show I was. This is probably the summer for seventh grade and as a pragmatic and realizing like shit, I might be enormity so my powers were not manifesting and I’m thinking payable. Let me have something working on in the meantime while I wait for my obvious mutant. to become apparent to everyone else. and someone called into her show and said thank you so much for your work. You saved my life. So my great I’ll just do that like what whatever whatever it is. She’s doing obviously is important. She was like waving around with a big purple, like but plug and I’m like okay well, whatever that is helps people so I should probably do that, so the X. men didn’t call not yet, I’m I’m still hopeful and so you know if you’re out there. Professor Clavier I’m ready. Superpower shown. Come forward, so actually had one of the most transformative nerd experiences of my entire life I was doing what all nerds do, and just reading like wiki entries about x men characters on the weekend one time hand realize I was reading some of the characters powers. Empathy is a superpower. And I just remember saying that like out loud in that moment, and just like tears, just flowing down my face because I’m looking at my childhood self and I happened to be in my childhood bedroom at the time, and so I had a childhood picture of myself on the wall and I just remember like saying it out loud like looking at myself and being like. Oh my God! We made it like we did it and it just felt it just felt so real that the making space in the witnessing of people’s emotions really does save people’s life. I. Just WanNa Know How old you were when you had this regulation because I don’t know that I would ever have that. You know like like to sit there and think. We did it. I just don’t know that I would ever feel that way so deep to me and the empathy superpower when you really think about it, it’s. It really is incredible thing to offer to have like it’s. It creates connections like it’s power. And it could change the world. Empathy was a skill that was taught as diligently and is universally as you know other languages, math empathy would really change the way you interact with everyone with the person at the grocery store with the person who fixes your car, your siblings, the love of your Li- lives love or love with your children, and it’s interesting because I wonder how many parents. Parents. Use that word teach that word in the associated skills to their kids. Because you say that you were, you were young. When you realize that empathy is a superpower, and I’m sitting here. Wondering at what point I even learned that word I. Don’t recall it being a part of our English courses and our spelling tests. You know it was. It was hidden from us like the clitoris. I never learned that word either. And see how transformative that is for lived. Experience in you know I I have a lot of empathy. To use the word and compassion for the parents who don’t or on aren’t able to teach it to their children. Because also they didn’t learn it either.

00:05:02 – 00:10:02

I’m the child of immigrants who were the children of Immigrants Right and Along the way, you just lose the privilege to be able to spend a lot of time centering your emotional experience, but it does transform the way you can actually inhabit the world, and so for me now to be a marriage and family therapist, who the center of my work often is around sex. So, much of what people are coming in talk about has directly to do with their feelings and people get trapped in the mechanics, but the problem is always a feeling right. The thing that I often will say is that the worst thing that could happen to you is a feeling, and so when I think about the experience of being horrible, the worst of anything ever is always how you feel. Right and if you are able to develop a sense of confidence that no matter what feeling comes up for me, I trust myself to be able to get through it. The world doesn’t have a lot that can stop you anymore right in that so much tied to your sense of self and your self esteem, and you know we often differentiate between. And confidence and confidence, being the belief that you can do something and self esteem, referring to how you really feel about yourself, so self esteem is so tied to vulnerability and I WanNa talk about vulnerability. What does it mean to be vulnerable in the positive and perhaps know the negative sense? Yeah, I think vulnerability what at least the way that I use it is. Really just the willingness to be impacted. Right that that is kind of how I-, operationalize at the the willingness to be emotionally impacted and I belong to a culture right if we think about the West or if we think about what it means for me to be a person of color, where strength is celebrated, right I also identify as a woman right, and so there are lots of ways in which you get sort of the recurring message, right? You’re so strong. Right and I used to live into that. You still love that Ram. I’m a boxer was a martial artist for a period of time was an acrobatic period of time. I was really working hard to keep Mexico sharp by the way. This was not all just for pleasure. She’s being. Shut down the practice Oh Yeh x-men people call of my clients and so I’ll like hold like a small case load, but also. Link, I’ll be working. For the excellent, okay, so besides empathy being here supercup. What would your other superpower be? Oh, goodness, truthfully like I have not been picky. The thing that I would link privately. Wish for was that it was. At the time I was like. Oh, I just don’t want something. That’s like not cool right like there’s some powers that are not super marketable. At the time. I was thinking much about like the character towed, and that was like like. He has an awesome tongue like being a sex therapist like actually. Totally be fine with that. Being my power and I could totally sell that right, but at this point I’m I’m willing to open and willing to be open stolen clear I have a legit question superpowers. This is a survey to you and everyone listening. If you could choose between flying at the speed of light or teleporting. which superpower would you choose out absolutely teleport? Really only teleport you keep teleporting and floating. You can only teleport one place in that’s it okay so you? What Brennan’s trying to do is use you for three three therapy right now because we’re always arguing about, what would you pick flying or teleporting and we just have to agree to understand. You know Chamara six, Chamara. Yeah, he’s a baton. Rouge based therapist who was on the podcast recently, and she’s such a good way with words she does, and she was saying. Don’t agree to disagree. Agree to understand so I. Understand your ridiculous perspective. When! We wrap this show I’m going to gift the podcasting complimentary couple seconds so that we can processes further. To get into all the specifics as to why speed flying at the speed of light is better, but. It’s all good I read. For me, personally, part of my consideration would be one just like the time difference. Speed of light is like instantaneous, but also I’m thinking like if I’m flying that fast. Like what is that going to do my hair exactly? So I’m also. teleport to them like. Yet but I’m to get there. And then like you can’t survive. And I’m thinking about. A real thing we can make it a survivable survivable thing plus. Interact with the bug like just like the splatter. You got a bug in your I. Once when you’re on your motorcycle in, it felt like you were blind dish. ROCK IN MY I. Was Back. We’ll go back to this topic of vulnerability.

00:10:03 – 00:15:01

What do you do if you feel that you’re avoiding being vulnerable? Or that you have a partner who refuses to open up and be vulnerable. I think it’s often easier for us to notice in other people than ourselves. you know as as we before we started the really important conversation about Super Powers you know acknowledging that many of us exist in the world, really priding ourselves around strength and a lot of what we have taken strengths to mean is impenetrability right lack of vulnerability right vulnerability is weakness is the way that many of us understand it, and so often times when we are distancing ourselves emotionally from an experience, it can feel like I am doing the thing to get over this, and that’s language that people often talk about, and so if you are finding yourself sort of having narratives. Along those lines right I i. I’m just not going to think about it right. I’m going GONNA. I just want to get over. This is GonNa be over it and you fill that energy or that time with stuff, right so drinking or smoking or you know binge watching TV or doing everything you can to distract, and distraction can be helpful and useful, and it actually isn’t acknowledging the emotional experience, and you can notice that more easily often, and other people right seeing you can witness someone actively. Working to not. Go through the process that they’re in. And some of the. Some of the shift has to be about even just like the awareness of that for yourself and the question as to why. I. What is keeping me from being in this experience because we actually don’t get over anything as a therapist that works a ton with trauma. It can feel like a high conflict thing to say, but we don’t get over anything to be beyond it. We have to go through. But I love this I. Love this. This is so insightful for me, but you. You believe that you never actually. Get over something. You think you just move beyond, so is there a? Is there a point at which? People achieve that state. Where like yes, this is behind me like. Is there something that you look for to understand that you can move forward? Yes, absolutely, and and some of it rests in the in the semantics ride that I absolutely think that we can have experiences that feel closed and completed and resolved no longer burden us or way down, but if you were to imagine I have a problem here and you imagine the problem is maybe like a rock or a hill that I need to climb, and you say. Say you know I’m going over it right? The all of the Meat Right? What the actual issue is is buried inside right? We actually have to go through the process. Going around or jumping over doesn’t actually allow you to get the lesson or to really have the experience, and so when I work with folks, we’re creatures of habit were very very simple, right? Our whole lives are patterns in routines, and so when people come into my office and are talking about pains that they’ve experienced or ways in which they’re stuck. It’s the same problem over and over again. Ryan just shows up in different ways right. We tend to run into one or two obstacles, and until we’re able to develop the skill around navigating what it means to be in conflict about a particular topic that we’re both passionate about or what it means to have the feeling of shame. And not allow that to really. Interrupt our ability to. Accept positively from other people right whatever your particular pattern of obstacle is, it will continue. To replay itself until you’re willing to not just jump over it. But to do the work of going through, but because so many of us one were taught to be strong as in we, we cannot be impacted, so you? You actually aren’t even receptive to learning right if we’re not able to vulnerable learning as a vulnerable process, and actually have to be open and willing to be impacted by new information, but also because we see everyone else being strong. We don’t even know who we can go to for support. We don’t even know who could be. And say I see you and I’ve been there or I’m with. You might not be my experience right now, but I know what that feels like. And as a therapist, that is the bulk of the work. Grandma’s Shitty magician I tell everyone like how how to do everything on the go I learned this. You show it to write that. The most healing and transformative part of my work I think is the ability to sit with someone and make space for the MESSI. Most painful you know. I’ll use the word ugly right, not my judgment with them, but their judgment of themselves the.

00:15:01 – 00:20:11

Parts of their stories and just bear witness. And say I i. hear you and I see you. And would you say every person struggles with being vulnerable, because it’s such a cultural norm to try and be strong, and because we locate power and strength in not being vulnerable. His as a culture, it is unsurprising to me that. It comes up so then right I can’t say every person because I know tons of people who are so beautifully and powerfully vulnerable even amidst. Difficult sort of. Interlaced system of oppression that we that we are living in and have been living in but also the world. Is really is also very hard for vulnerable people as well because they’re contending with all the rest of us who are still trying to figure ourselves out so many of us don’t even have language to describe what we feel because no one has ever given us the space or the opportunity to put it into words. Can you help us with that now? For folks listening I think there’s probably a broad range of people people might say oh. Yeah, I really do struggle with opening up and being vulnerable and letting my guard down and other people might say yeah I’m really good at that already and everyone in between I’m sure a lot of people are thinking. He and my partner does that and I’m always trying to bring it back to yourself, because as you said, it’s easier to recognize than someone else than in yourself. What language can we begin with? Are there some sentences we can complete from ourselves to better understand ourselves so that we aren’t climbing over the rock. Even. We’re working our way into the surface that I mentor layer. Yeah, what language would be the chip to better understand our own vulnerabilities abilities? Yeah, you know. I F- often. Asked people you know in this moment. How do you feel? Because most of US end up being very cerebral in in the Western world and conversation, people then will sort of respond with some kind of narration of things. They’re thinking about more experience at they’re having you know I feel like today. or I’m feeling that right and. I am challenging to people around that in that. When you are checking in with yourself about how you feel. You need to respect your own requests and actually follow up with a feeling word, what what is a feeling word, right? It’s a motion. And, so think about the way you talk about emotions with children. Right that. There are all of these different facial expressions. What feeling is that whether that’s happiness or sadness or anger or disgust, right or surprise and depending on what your vocabulary is, you can get really rich nuance so all of us. You Know Malaga file a person who loves language, so all of us. You know nerdy people who are invested in getting really really granular with it while we talk about the difference between being. Angry and upset and furious and enraged and perturbed, and you know there’s this whole gradient that we can experience and still communicate really really nuanced emotional experiences, but. It really starts with being able to ask yourself the question and just check in right. How am I feeling right now? How do I feel then again? Follow it with a feeling word, and when you get that message because your body will will show up for you. It might not happen right away out of practice. ’cause the skill that we build. But as your body’s are still at you know, this is the feeling great. Do you have the space to be also a little curious about that? Right anxious I wonder, I wonder why and give yourself permission to feel that because many of us have been conditioned to show up for other people, and not for ourselves, so for example if somebody were to ask me how I’m doing i. Say. I’m doing great. And so that might be something. I put it to the world, but if I’m doing that to myself on my own and always pretending that things are great. and. I’m just letting. All those rocks fall around me absolutely and never going through them and I’ll highlight it. You know insofar as you know. Since we brought it up right, the question was. How are you doing right and you? Maybe you are doing great. You do a lot of great work. You do a lot of great things for people. You could do a lot and still not feel very good. And that’s how we miss each other all the time because you might not have been being dishonest I am doing great right right so interesting, and that’s a subconscious absolutely on my part because I. But it makes a difference. And so do you think that’s an important question to ask the people with whom you have intimate relationships the difference between? How are you? And how are you feeling for your kids for your partners for your close friends it it is an invitation.

00:20:12 – 00:25:03

Right and for the person who has been waiting to be invited. Or, the person who never even knew that that was a space that they could enter into. That it’s such a beautiful and simple gift. That we can offer that that doesn’t actually take a lot. For us, ask. How’re you feeling and to really kind of hold that no I. Asked you how you feel. How do you feel? I love it, because I think it’s easy to fall into this. Figure it till you make it sort approach where people ask you how you do it, while I’m great, and it’s like well positive talk reinforces positively and I’m GonNa, change, my mindset, and all this stuff and listen I think that there is validity in having a positive outlook I think is very important. I also think from what you’ve just told us. The importance of recognizing how you actually feel, because I’ve caught myself recently. You know different times through my life. Going about my day. Not being vulnerable being. Strong in so much as to support the people around me. and. Support the people that I’m working with. But when I’ve finished my day and I’ve come home to my partner. You have felt like you’ve been hit my truck because. Inside you may not be feeling great, and it’s not that I mean not suffering from depression unlucky in that respect, I don’t think that I am you know what I mean, but you go about carrying yourself with strength to support. And encourage the people around you. But to feel inside a little differently is heart, so I think that that question is very poignant in its very. important ask in probably important ask people. That extended outside of your immediate. Sphere right like it’s one thing for me to ask that adjusts because we see each other every day and probably much more willing to be vulnerable and open with her. But to ask that some of the people that I’m friends with or that I work with I, think goes a long way and that element of vulnerability I think. When I look at things from a business perspective when I express vulnerability to for instance a client. The client! Might my my knee jerk reactions to think they’re gonNA. Look at this as weakness as we’ve discussed when in reality when I express that human element. They actually respond very positively to me and I’m not saying Oh. My Gosh I’ve got nothing for you. What I’m saying is. For instance you know what I made a mistake doing that. I’m very sorry. I’m taking responsibility for it and I’M GONNA. Fix it I’m here to find solutions as opposed to lying about the mistake. To come from a position of strength. I’m actually saying. I’m wrong. I didn’t I’m sorry, and let’s fix the problem or I’m GonNa fix? The problem and everything works out oftentimes. Way Better and I strengthen that relationship and it applies in all relationships. It’s disarming when someone else shows. Vulnerability infected encourages other people to express that vulnerability as well, and it’s interesting, because when we think about being emotionally threatened, we are hardwired to flee to release to disassociate withdraw when something feels emotionally threatening, but I was thinking about physical vulnerability, and how in the modern developed world? We those of us, often living in the west with privilege. We actually seek out physical vulnerability. We go hell skiing. We go bungee jumping. We relinquish control every time we get in an uber or an airplane, so we may be an uber. Isn’t that thrilling, but many of those high adrenaline sports that many of us seek out those are ways of putting ourselves in a physically vulnerable vulnerable position. Because it’s thrilling because it’s thrilling to enjoy the risk, the threat and come out on the other side either feeling unscathed or even feeling stronger so I wonder if we could look at emotional vulnerability in a similar way to save when we push ourselves to be a little bit more vulnerable to open up a little bit more. It leaves our lives. A little more exciting, a little different changes. Even the way we think the way we feel the way other people respond to us. So. How do you get? Let’s say a couple working together. I can see that clients will open up with you and you have away about you where I’m sure.

00:25:03 – 00:30:02

Everybody opens up with you to the point. You’re like just stop. You probably no longer asking people. How are you feeling? Unless you’re bill in them. But a couple who has difficulty showing vulnerability now? Maybe a power struggle. It may be stuff from their past in their childhood. Is there an exercise they can do because I love. The theory and I always want to think about what can people try on their own? Yeah and I. I want to move into that. I want to reflect really quickly on on things I feel like might be meaningful to highlight about what each of you shared I think that many of us were. Taught sort of this untruths that you know. If I AM strong. If I am unemotional, I will be more effective right I’ll be better at business right, but I get brought into corporations all the time to talk about these air quotes soft skills right that the ability to be vulnerable is an important leadership skill. And it makes you trust-worthy right that I have to. My father is an engineer so I talk math as if it’s just a thing that everyone talks about normally and so a formula that offer for folks around trust is trust equals transparency plus consistency over time. Right then transparency piece is your willingness to be emotionally expressive. And so we actually can extend that reflect it back to our own selves by allowing ourselves to be vulnerable with ourselves and learning and trying new things, so some of the physical things that you had mentioned. Our vulnerabilities right that we feel awkward were inexperienced were new. It’s challenging. Right play is a vulnerable experience, right, and so for me. That’s what boxing is boxing his plane because the work that I do while I get to access empathy. It is from a place where I don’t get to be expressive in ways that I would authentically be right that if someone tells a. A difficult story that you know as I empathize, it shifts the energy. If I’m like seeing there like bawling hysterically, right, that’s not probably what you want from your therapist. right and so boxing is a place that I can show up, and just like Imotong right and so if I’m like hysterically laughing as I’m like doing these burke’s right like nobody cares, do the. Right and so as I talk with folks about opportunities you know for how to do this. First of all the folks who struggle the most are the people who one have learned through. Truthfully trauma right that the world is unsafe and so I cannot be open, and so we always have to honor right that a lot of us learn this in a very hard way, either because we tried to be vulnerable, we never got the chance to start to learn how to trust ourselves to be impacted. And then often, people are reinforced for that right, so they have careers right? They’ve part which partners that reinforce that right. We get messages all the time and so if you’re in a partnership or hoping to cultivate a partnership that makes some space for that. You know I like to have people. There’s an activity called emptying the Jug. it’s by a corporation called Pears P.. I. R. S. I cannot remember what the acronym stands for in this moment, but if you look up emptying the Jug, the empty jug technique. You will find this exercise when we think about you know the metaphor bottling up your emotions The exercise of imagines that. When you bottle things up, they don’t all sort of Mesh together in like a like a jumble I type of deal right that they actually separate kind of into layers and it’s cultural based on how you express things, but if we were to think about Western culture, if you you know if you sort of blow your top right, if you lose control of your emotions, and I’m using air quotes for that the first thing that come out is typically anger. Rights when you lose your composure, right that the first thing is probably gonNA come out his something in the range anger whatever you’ve got in there, and depending on what the intensity was like inside that bottle. When you shake it up in the lid POPs off can be some really nasty gnarly stuff And then if you’re willing to or able to be with the anger read, and not just like let it stay there, but actually move through it and allow that person to express their anger, of course, said the boundaries that you need to around your physical safety, because we’ve learned to equate anger with violence, and they’re very different experiences. The next thing that’s come out his sadness. Right so I thing mad and then sad.

00:30:02 – 00:35:03

If we are able to support ‘EM, beat with people through their sadness. They actually start to talk about what they’re afraid of their fears. Fear is Oh is absolutely always in there, right? We’re the heat rises, but just say it sits right there because we’re wired for survival and part of the ways that we track survival, not just our physical safety, but also are relational emotional safety. So as you did this thing that made me mad. Right in as we make space. Space Right sometimes the tears start to come out or they talk about how right how hurt. They were about this experience because anger as a protective emotion. That’s what comes up I ride, and if we’re able to be with someone in a fearful state, we actually make room for almost like those sweet drags at the bottom right, some of that relief, or happy or gladness or calm right into. If you’ve gone through like a high conflict conversation with someone, but at the end of it. You felt you felt better. Like, Oh, yeah, that went really well that you often had the space to go through that full process, but we’re so guarded and defended that all we get. Is that protective defensive anger, and I experienced your anger towards me as an attack, and so I more defensive and vice versa, and it’s fascinating for me as a therapist, and also was a middle child till just like wash the world right I’m I am the scary trifecta Gemini Middle Child Millennial and they can’t run away because they’ve closed all the doors and. right, but just acknowledging as as I watch and listen to so many conflicts I hear people desperate till share their emotional experiences, and just be just like received half the time. We don’t actually care if anyone agrees right, although it’s an easy way to sort of and a conversation, but most people are actually trying to communicate a feeling. And to have that be affirmed. And as our defensive anger comes up because you speaking, your truth somehow feels like an attack on my experience, and as I try to push vulnerability with you. You’re also reacting in a way that is feeling like my expression of owner abilities limiting your expression of vulnerability. And we just end up in this. Very superficial conversation, and if you ever end up in a an argument with someone at the end of it, you don’t remember what you said and you don’t actually remember what they said. Except for the things that made you mad, right? You actually weren’t sharing. Right that that wasn’t a process right there. There wasn’t any empathy. There wasn’t any real vulnerability there, right? It was just reacting and it’s. It’s because you’re emptying. What’s at the top of the jar? Then, you don’t get to be empty. It’s almost like if you say okay I’m going to be open, and so you take the the lid off the top of the bottle, and then you put your thumb on it. And just keep shaking it up right until yet. Little bits of foam come out here and there, but you never actually got to have the process of really expressing and releasing, and yes, there are skills that help you be able to communicate more clearly. Right and to you know divorce. Some of the more triggering parts of language. We have actually very violent language right. Our language is tends to incite. Reactions from folks a lot of the time, and we’re actually trying to be vulnerable, but because we don’t have a practice of it were clumsy. So do you have to begin at the top? Is there a way and I wish? I had an hour to unpack this maybe another time. Is there a way to? Break through and get to the good stuff or do many of us need to release that anger. Depending on our our life circumstances the way we experienced oppression, the history and the relationship, and this is this is part of why talk so much about going through rather than getting over right that while it would be. More convenient for us just skip to the nice part right or the more tender part we don’t. We don’t actually have the safety in most of our relationships to trust that I can actually peel back all of these layers with you, and actually beheld and received in there is a response that is needed at at each level. Right that at anger. We need accountability right. I need to know that you saw the boundary that was crossed, so I can right so I can stop defending it right and ray, and that’s really a reminder that if your partner always seems angry and always seems to be blowing their lead. For you to consider your role, absolutely in their feeling of safety to get at the deeper conversations, because we are always looking at the way, our partner responds the their deficits in communication. When in fact, oftentimes, it’s the way we receive information the way we respond to information, and that doesn’t mean you’re responsible for their behavior, but it does mean that they are feeling a certain way in the context of this relationship, you are always accountable to the process right.

00:35:03 – 00:40:00

I can’t. Make you be better at resolving your anger when you are angry. Right I can be accountable to the things that I’ve done that to contribute to feeling angry right, and I’m also responsible if I’m trying to communicate a feeling to you actually my responsibility to do my best to translate. My natural way of communicating to something that. I believe could be received by you, right? My partner and I don’t have the same first language right so even though I also speak French right that he. Learned English as his third language right so whereas English is my first ride, and so if I’m trying to communicate something, really really sensitive and delicate, even though my best fluency is an English, I might try in French because I know, he will receive that better, and it feels like a lot of extra labor, and it can feel frustrating, and you don’t have to do it, and it is an opportunity if you’re saying I I really. Really, do want to be received and seen by this person as they work to learn my language, I also am responsible for the work that I do to meet them also, and you’re speaking about languages specifically with your partner that you’re speaking metaphorically. Yes, thanks, you only speak with yes, yes, right so if if there is a way that I tend to communicate my sadness, right? I’m actually responsible for teaching my partner that about me. Right, so we actually don’t get the opportunity to skip into like. Let’s just all Colombians talk about the sadness. Right because as I try and express my sadness. You don’t if you’re not getting that for me. If not hearing that for me I, could, I could be as vulnerable. As I feel like I can or know how to be, and we’re still missing each other, and so there there we can continue to build skill in these relationships in seeing and hearing each other, but I like the emptying the jug technique as an opportunity for folks that just have a framework, and so the exercise itself is really just to two partners. Say Hey, you know. Can we check in looked drug with you or game for that? Yes, right? We’ve consent. One person is a speaker. The other person is the listener. The listener asked the question, right? What are you mad about? The person just gets to. Just dump it all out, and they can say as much or as little about all of the things that they’re mad about. Maybe they’re not mad about anything nothing, right? What are you sat about? Where you scared about? Where do you relieved or glad about and just let the person just just dump just dump, and the listener does not get to pick up anything and ask questions about it. If they have a question, they actually have to save it for a separate conversation. Hey, yesterday. You said that you were mad about what Blah can I can. Can we talk a little bit more about that right and we? Switch roles right so I got to empty the Jug. You got to empty the Jug, we’re not walking around full and carrying all this muck. We asked permission, so I’m not dumping on. You and I don’t have to feel like I’ve. Be You know the way for me to support? You is to be like tough like neutral. Actually feel most supported by people who will walk alongside US rather than people who are just like. And perfect. How long do you typically For an emptying of the juggling. Do you recommend that people do it? Though for five minutes just so that it does ramble on forever. However long it takes so if we do it in a session. Sometimes, it’s the whole session, but I like the idea of even like this is so great in terms of an activity that I can do today or that. We can do today, but not responding. Do you recommend that people don’t respond to the emptying of the job until the following day? The partner that’s listening like is what’s the time you should wait before you address those things that were brought up so that that can be negotiated. You write that we all have our own kind of. Readiness to pick up any individual item, and there’s some things that we actually are only able to share if I know I don’t have to go deeper into this right now. Right ’cause we do have things are still really alive, and really tender that maybe I’m not really ready to workshop, but I want you to know about it, and so even just the asking. Hey, you even even when it’s over over, you know. It really stood out to me that you said that you’re angry about you. Know the way your boss treated you at work. I’d like to talk about that more. Is there a time we could protect for that right? The person gets the opportunity to say link actually. No, I’m not interested in talking more about that right, or can we talk about it tomorrow or yelling me? Go get some water and we can talk about an out. You’re being proactive about things. I love that and I think. You know for me. This goes back to what you said about going. I need to even the my language I need to get over this right. That’s what I WANNA do. Something happened in my life that I need to get over. I, need to. I don’t need to get through it. To! Get over it whereas. You know this is an activity.

00:40:00 – 00:42:57

That I can take on today. With my partner and I can express all of these things. And then you can sit, just could sit there and take however long. We predetermined in advance whether it’s an hour a day to actually digest that, and before because my knee jerk response to everything is I’m going to respond immediately, probably not going to think about it because the words just go out of my mouth. And then I may actually start arguments whereas if just empties the Jug I take an hour or day. To just let it sit and think about these things I can then come back with your superpower of empathy, which I may not have been able to come back with. Had it been a an immediate back and forth interaction and I also appreciate that you don’t have to share everything, and I think that’s. An erroneous belief in many relationships that if you have a happy relationship, if you’re intimate, you share everything and that’s not always the case. Part of your sharing might be boundaries that that’s not something I wanted to discuss. Yes, I’m willing to admit that. It’s bothering me because I’d like to check in with you and give you some context as to. Why might be behaving the way I am or feeling the way I am, but it’s not something I want to discuss. You don’t have to share everything. With Your partner now I wish we could talk for so much longer. I’m hypnotized by listening to you, but we. We are out of time and I want to say. Thank you so much. People can book you to speak, and they can find out more about your work on your website. Yes, yeah, my website is my full name. It’s should DEAN FRANCIS DOT com. the new thing that I’m trying that. All the other millennials have been doing the last six to eight years. is that when I have things upcoming the on social media. That apparently is this new thing that’s happening out in the world. This ocean, the the media’s will go to be social, and so if you’re looking for me on social the two platforms that I’m existing on currently our twitter and Instagram, and you will also find me at my name on both of those platforms. Okay, Awesome! Thank you so much for being here. Thank you again for having me. It was really fun conversation and thank you to you for listening. Hopefully, you’re feeling ready to. To Open Up and if you are sexually active, once again, shadow to our sponsor. Let’s get checked dot com. They offer at home sti testing. They mail you the kit. There’s a prepaid envelope you mail it all back and they test for other things as well testosterone and other hormone levels. Check them out. Let’s get checked dot com, and of course the code to save is Dr Jess. You’re at I. Hope you’re having a great one. We’ll be back next week. Hang in there, folks. You’re listening to the sex with Dr Jazz podcast. Improve your sex life. Improve Your Life.